WRKO>Audio & Video on Demand>>Jim Lakely from the Heartland Institute on Net Neutrality

Jim Lakely from the Heartland Institute on Net Neutrality

Nov 12, 2014|

Jim Lakely from the Heartland Institute joined guest host Mike Siegel to talk about Net Neutrality and how it will be affected if the government and Obama administration get involved.

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Sunday. We got what we expected. Not pleasant but we got and that was the president saying he's going to the wall for full blown control of the Internet. By government. That was the last time government controlled something that it right. Especially in the case of the Internet under this concept called net neutrality. And it is more powerful in your life and you could ever imagine. Because when you start getting the government involved in regulating the Internet. You're talking about controlling down the road potentially. The ideas. That are presented on the Internet a sitting administration and if the FCC regulates the Internet. You're talking about the possibility of getting in the content. And telling the Internet service providers Verizon AT&T. And Comcast century Lincoln me whoever you wanna use as your. Internet provider. They're going to be regulated. And frankly if there's not a problem what do you have to fix. I haven't heard a big outcry from the American people their upset about the way the free and open marketplace handles the Internet so joining us is an expert on the subject. To try to hammer this out as the president scolded the wall to battle won this and even the battle with the zone chairman of the FCC Tom Wheeler. Is Jim likely director of communications for the heartland institute a major think tank. Based in the president's state of Illinois will most likely only I can say is Alicia base offer Republican governor for once. We did that was the shocker of the night for me like I would even picked as my upset of the week. If a that's the barrel London and Massachusetts right in his New England to. Got a governor a Republican in Illinois has to win above the margin of fraud and I just didn't think he'd make it's a good for Bruce Ratner. The ago. All right. The first of all define what net neutrality would be at its gonna affect everybody anybody who uses a computer. And goes to the Internet is going to be affected. Tell us what net neutrality would do to that process as we all use the Internet today. Will the net neutrality is give kinda nebulous concept the idea that everything that and it worked well when the Internet was young when there was not a lot of stuff moving. Over the Internet at the very large it was and find concept that. Your Internet service provider should not be blocking or pro or prioritizing any access to any web sites. Based on any special deals or prioritizing traffic based on how you know important it is or how fast. It it should go that made a lot of sense for me a little bit of sense as an idea that early in the in the interest when we were all on dial up. In the broad band aid that we live in now. I'm in utilities and get a fine concept and is largely adhered to through the choices that consumers make in the choices that firms have to make to keep their consumers happy. As usual this this administration wants to regulate everything and it wants to control everything in the want to control the Internet. And in this case the Pratt President Obama does something unprecedented. Most presidents of both federal agencies as you know are under the auspices of the executive branch which is at a by the president but the FCC has been kind of unique in Andy's been very independent from any influence from people. In the executive branch and yet another first for this president he decided to kind of try to strong army at BC. And to regulate. Broad band as a public utility. Much like electricity. Services and and make it kind of a government cause I government run agency. Now that the reason that we have this wonder at the age the modern age the modern Internet. Is because private enterprise. And private investment have created it it was not made by government it was made what we have today was made by the free market. And if you would like the way the post offices Ron if you like obamacare you're gonna love net neutrality and the Internet. Managed by federal bureaucrats at the FCC. Well you know and the other thing too is that that they wanna use without getting too technical title to. Right federal law which which is basically for telephone service regulation. They wanna regulated the same way to regulate telephones my problem is artsy you have phone lines. Physically across the country on phone telephone poles and all that. But the the problem here is that we're talking about hyper space I mean you can pick up in this program. In Beijing for that matter I I unless they block at which that probably do. But. You know what may be may be if Barack Obama the talk show they'd they'd pick it up I don't know on the left far left side of the aisle but. But nevertheless. You're talking about regulating something that at this point needs no regulation because nobody's complaining about it to speak of are they. You're not nobody is the only people that are complaining about her lips curved left activist left wing activist groups. In Washington DC. That are always agitating for more regulation that the net neutrality as enforced by the federal government is yet another problem. That doesn't need to be fixed because there isn't a problem. There are always conflicts in any markets between. Consumers and vendors and if manufacturers. But the markets turn those things out in the air fixed. Through. Millions of decisions that nobody no individual or panels people in Washington DC have nearly enough information to make those decisions. These are made through with the preceding visible hand. And government is going to brew in the Internet is as we know what I always colonials would listen to this more often what you have grown ups. Taking yet taken as a given is not given not given if the government gets in here and starts mucking around with it. That this president doesn't even understand how the Internet works in the in the prelude to his declaration of what he wants to strong arm the FCC into doing. He says that the Internet Internet service profession should not treated any differently. The block a high school student the at a Netflix. As a completely backwards. I am not paying some high school student to give me his opinions on its little blog Ed dot edu from his school but I am paying Netflix. Fifty dollars a month to stream the programs I wanna watch and I should be able to get that at the service that the quality that I. She said what went and people don't understand than the subordinate neutrality doesn't make any sense in the modern Internet. Again the idea that there should be no prior pride organization of traffic based on what's more important to the market. Is that on peak hours in the United States. Netflix and Google's YouTube services pick up half of everything that has sent over broadband networks in this country. Have two things. Net neutrality would make it's that everybody who likes Netflix and it Netflix and what likes watching YouTube video. We'll have all bets service degraded. Because of the government mandate to treat everything equally or more equally it's absurd the market. Has brought us the modern wonders of the Internet and the market will continue to bring the wonders of the modern Internet upon the government of state act out of the way. Another point that so we understand this what you're saying is that and Amazon or Google or Netflix or Hulu. And I'm which I've never used I know about it anyway. That they're that they give you movies and we Netflix is the easy one Amazon does that two in iTunes I guess does it. Sure so you need a lot first question. Unita huge amount of streaming capability. For a movie as compared with the mean writing an op Ed piece on my website correct. Sure of course yes that most people in the can in the basic consumer packages to people get from the Comcast cable. Or AT&T with the with their services or Brian arms are Verizon now fiber optics. Did the normal plant people have are fine when you pass something in of that sort. Are so so now. You're talking about a couple things number one if everybody had equal access. And meet writing my op Ed piece of art just the justice 500 word statement let's say that I post. And thousands of other people doing the same thing on web sites across the country. And and everybody had to be treated equally and Edwards Netflix could not get. More streaming capacity than me. And all of the thousands of others who writes small items. Then that would mean Netflix gets less streaming capability. If they don't get a priority which means you're not gonna get the download of the movie it might take. I don't know twenty minutes to downloaded or might take longer than that I I have no idea how long it would take but it would be it would not be. Either the time or for that matter the quality of picture that it would be under the present system is that correct. Sure I mean but again the problem and not too many people have I mean when these technology you have this as the government gets involved. Oh sure you yet he would certainly set it up for that to happen and this is an out you know my wife and I'm also the co director of the center of the digital economy here at heartland institute. In my life it's seen this thing should supplement from that a leftist guy had written about net neutrality praising it. And she said can you explain this to me and she's been completed or it's of this points. A salami baloney that the don't watch it Netflix get priority nation over Comcast line for instance over something else. And as I mentioned they. Netflix YouTube alone take up half of all broadband and at a peak hours the United States. But it looked at let's say you're going from Chicago you're taking an airplane in your plans for Chicago to Boston. And you go to the airport you buy one ticket you get your one seat and off you go out that this so that that's you Mike that you in the airplane and mr. Netflix comes by. And he says I would like to fly to Boston as well but I actually need to take up four rows of space because that's how big I am but hey. Michael only paid to order to underdogs for his ticket I demand only pay 200 dollars as well that's crazy. You're thank you either way into an issue anymore. Yeah and and and and these companies are paying more but that the U great point because if every and that's part of this socialist. Economy that Obama once he basically he wants to put everything into one formula meaning that I have the same access. To the web doing might what do right do as Netflix which is an absurdity because number one wouldn't it. But wouldn't that whole prime way of doing it be absolutely. This satisfying. To the customers of Netflix or Amazon or anybody else and you have millions of people complaining of this one plays which cannot. Absolutely and again that is how the of the free market self regulates because that it is incentivized to pleases many customers as possible to maximize. Profits what's I think prop is about where but to maximize profits and to grow your company there is no incentive for Comcast the Netflix and other companies to conspire. To make their customers unhappy because they're blocking access to take. Google search engine or to YouTube or to Hulu and they like they they just want Netflix and you can't get Hulu they would lose customers buy in droves for that. And that's why did this is not a problem that means the government fixing because there is no problem. Well I don't end it here these things and in in line with that the customers would be dissatisfied they couldn't download as quickly they wouldn't get the same quality. Because everybody be an equal footing but the point would be that Netflix school. Amazon Hulu. They're perfectly happy to pay for the extra streaming space to the Internet service provider. In order to be able to download quickly for their customers to watch those movies at the snap of the finger. And Obama wants to take that ability away. So that's why it's violating. Really in the end the consumer. And it's it's not about the company obviously he can use more streaming space. These companies are paying Fortson a pass along the cost to the customer but the customers obviously willing to they've millions of people have Netflix that willing to pay it in order to get the service. Absolutely again the supermarket working people want this service to Netflix wants faster service that they will make a deal with with firms like contest. To make this happen another thing people don't understand and it's important to realize. Is that those pipes by Comcast systems one example those cable but cables the cable broadband that's their property they owned that they've invested billions of dollars into that network. And so they should be able want to manage it as they see fit and two they are incentivized by the market not just from the consumer's got from potential vendors quote unquote vendors like Netflix. That are coming in there with contents they they've very high incentive to make sure everybody is satisfied that they continue to grow as a company. This is what this is how the market works and the idea that the Internet is broken and needs some out now now all times these government intervention to save it. From from corporations that are so called brewing at Ascot customer at the average customer he feels like the Internet has ruined. Because the government is not involved in regulating its absurd. While we're out of love here for people out there wanna talk about this few folks. Understand net neutrality. Even if you don't for that matter. This is this is a nightmare waiting to happen 8774694322. Typical Brack Obama. More government control and where is government control. Been successful is my question when he deregulated the phone companies and deregulated the airline industry. Prices went down and when those regulation. McMahon monopolies prices were up. So this this is absolutely an abomination now the other the other element of this and we're talking Jim lately of the heartland institute. The director of communications expert on this field of net neutrality was the president said Sunday he's gonna go to wall to get. The other question missed likely has to do with them the feared that many of expressed. Once they get the foot in the door on this regulation of the streaming space so that people would Netflix. Really won't be able to watch their movies because Netflix wouldn't be able to buy extra streaming space and have to go to the people. Under the president's plan. Bottom line is what about the content. Could there be control over content as an if there's a one party system. Which Obama wants is it possible. That down the road he doesn't like fox even though the other networks aren't his back pocket. When he tried it would he try to stop conservative web sites is that possible. I guess is possible everything is possible but what would you have to understand here is that what the what pres Obama wants the federal government the FCC to be in the business of doing is playing traffic cop. On the Internet so your traffic cop. You're watching all the cars go by you mean if you're if you're really gonna regulate intraday and ensure. Fairness. And they're competition as you read as a bureaucrat may define it. You have to watch all those cars going by and then once while you see Carter suspicious you have to pull over and you have to have the driver what's going not can you open your trunk. It is not possible to regulate net neutrality in the way that President Obama envisions it. Without federal bureaucrats really getting down into. The content of what's going over the Internet that's the only way to properly quote on quote regulated. And so that's where this could happen down the line be I really think the American people. Have to make a stand and say to the Internet has not broken my privacy is Paramount and stay out of the Internet. I let's go to the calls for Jim lately of the heartland institute the think tank that does great work in these fields Stan is first the ball. Stand your Ronald Mike Siegel how we Carner guest Jim lately hello. Yep all right guys thank you very much Marc I listened. Basically the all about control us about control the people let's let's remember what he wanted to put those cameras onto the the news that news station certainly can ensure that they could be something that they want what they wanted broadcast as if they don't already control. The drive by media I mean we we have are a conservative had very little. Horse to express our opinions and put forth ideas and and and and talk and speak in an address the grievances against the government. If you take that if you hit when you out if that happened. What we'd of people being the government creates nothing it creates no wealth in this country it's the private enterprise are the basic basic basic value. Private enterprise and put puts money into the economy and Eddie let's that this country golf ball. Wet limited at its stand. Stand Hillary says it's it's not business that creates jobs. Yeah well the upgrade at all Hillary under all of these. A links so she go that there. But that becomes doubt that the this element of fear. Up person like Obama who's running this country and a passive congress that this by and watches him. Are are are fearful a fearful of who is beautiful we of people. Because if we were tied up in mass. These people can be thrown out I fear for this country because I think we're going too far I can't see how this country considered. They can survive economically or any any any other way if we continue to let this man sit there. I appreciate the cost and I thank you when you said it very well need no response to that that you made the points. Go to Jeff for Jim likely the heartland is due Jeff bureau Mike Siegel for Howie Carr hello. All right they're out there and I get the couple points they're gonna make that like root her on it about like it's about contents inbound Internet service provider. And out people that use streaming video bury it on a lot that it's all about. It's not about like people ought not all the band let I think that the Internet service provider. Parker. Really unhappy bit people not everybody buying cable beat in my entire right now at my house it's just started off well like started maybe about a month or so ago. But not on extreme video and all of a sudden lack of offered and they never happened or you're gonna come here that the Internet service provider. Doesn't know that apple are using the Internet for. I just think it's like really unfair out if they charged me your PR news from what I used on the Internet. When like my neighbors who might not. Be streaming video they have it on iPad and fallen in doubt Obama not out of Mumbai on the computer and everybody eat them like five different devices. But yet. I would have to pay more people are upset and actually video. I do think it's Parker. What are you saying that of what I've done what so what you want government regulation then. Oh god no I don't get me I don't think that the Internet service providers period. You know hope people like really popular off of solar that you're here for like I should not a hate and more money because I stripping video. What you did really well what are now you pay you you pay it. You pay Netflix for the service you don't pay your Internet service provider dinner service writer's charges one monthly fee. You pay Netflix pay Cooley AMs and whoever yells you pay. That's the that's that's the content provider. The Internet service providers simply provides the the facilitators that did lead the delivery system. Or another but I don't get cable so now and I extreme video it's. Well and lack never used to do that these soliciting me to buy cable like probably two or three times a month. And economic streaming video doesn't work it's fun though like slightly ironic. I mean. Blakely Evan I. Thank you for that Jeff was likely what about that. Well he's complained it was Internet service provider. You don't get satisfaction he should look to. Another service brought that that does Serbs in his area he lives in its. Relatively urban base that he's probably got that towards at least three places freaking get. Broadband service connected to his column and it gets to go on money sort of blogger each actually Google. The problem that he has Lebanese find many people. That it may be experiencing the same problem they should unite and demand better service that's how the market works. The biggest point you made is the fact that there are alternatives in the old days cable TV systems would own a market. And for the most part they still do. Although now it's deregulated so that cable a new cable company commit to an area where it is already cable company but. It doesn't happen it's impractical and cable probably is going away anyway because he's doing streaming. Good example where the future's going Artest go to Pete for Jim lately of the heartless to Pete Euro Mike Siegel for Howie Carr hello. I equipment is that you and Jim young. I'm tiger earlier called this will be about control and regulating people's lives they would look like questionnaires. If if this actually took place. Would the states I feel like we used to rule horror in New York City in order street and he went with that didn't work. With what you just I now would everything be you know it's well like I used that tunnel pile up mode and that's a good question. I would hope not I would hope that that. There's so much invested by the companies that are making billions frankly on this new technology that we're all enjoying so much that they would find a way. It around the regulations or. This is what always happens this is why the government wants to be in years that they will be rent seekers these Netflix in the proper ever present now have to play mother may I. And make contributions to campaigns to get what you want at a policy. Instead of the policy be determined by you with a customer operating in a free market. And so we could see that Avalon I would hope not but it's certainly much more likely if the government gets involved in the Internet and it's not. It would almost be inevitable because if if if Netflix just using them lower or Ernie the others could not buy extra streaming space and only had that limited space that everybody else has. But how could they possibly deliver you. Technically the quality and timeliness of a movie. Good question I don't think they'd be able to and I thought we never have to find out. I appreciate that's what people ought to understand it because people willing to pay for those services to get those the movies or whatever they wanna get TV shows ever might be. Rick is next Rick hero Mike Siegel with. Our guest Jim lately for how we car hello. Also let me get to straight people or water bug download there videos should be able to do that over my ability to love. Make phone calls to look at Marty web sites. What you know we have a certain capacity on the on the Internet. Elect purposely goes. Leave but you have the ability right now I don't think anybody complaining about making phone calls or download and what you I don't complain about. I don't I don't I don't have a service like Netflix but I don't have any problem downloading would I want. And the put the reach the point about people would. Go ahead of interest are making so that the so that the Internet service providers can charge more money for their service. What is what's it going to do with our capacity. They're not gonna charge more money for their service will come right back on that point Jim lately of the heartland astute they're not gonna charge more money to you the consumer that's the point. Mike's at this equality of service you're getting. We'll get to that we come back at 330 at 430 and Howie Carr she'll. Welcome back involved that he what is the Howie Carr showed his Mike Siegel and how we today. 438 in the afternoon as we get back to war. Guess Jim lately of the heartland institute he's director of communication. Is also here as an expert on the field of net neutrality. Which would be devastating. To Wallace. I want to clear on the point the color me before the break was likely about the question of a choice the highest speed the Internet service provider. Verizon or AT&T or whoever we may have. A charging more. I'll leave it the way it is. Is not gonna charge anybody any more money. If if you don't have net neutrality it's going to be exactly word as they may if they have increases it will not be because. Of anything to do with net neutrality. And if you wanna buy it downloading services to watch movies are the videos. Like Netflix then but you do that but that's separate and it would still be without net neutrality very quick and very easy to two to receive in my correct. You are correct and the left government regulation you have the more vibrant competition you have been a marketplace. And so. More vibrant competition. Inevitably always pleased to better service to lower prices. Government intervention always leads to higher prices and less. Goods nervous or worse service and so accuracy and and lower prices and better service you have to be a supporter of keeping the government's hands. Out of the Internet and here's something I think is important for your listeners to understand and you would alluded to this from the beginning ever conversation like that technically. The Internet is classified by the FCC under title one which is a classifying it as an information service whereas title to under the communications act of 1996. Title to regulates things like phones as public utilities help congress put that. Put the Internet into under title one. The FCC does not have the authority to do is bad move it over to the other category effective been several. Federal lawsuits on this case and every single time federal courts have said no let's see see you do not have the ability to move it over into title to add to implement. Net neutrality by regulating broadband as a public utility. And I may just can't do that this is congress' job that does matter how much the president might want this to happen. They just don't have the authority to do so so that they try to do that yet again you'll BA. A bunch of lawsuits trying to stop that it what apple does it'll distract these firms that are giving you all this great service. They're going to be putting resources to fighting the government should be just serving you better. Oh what what makes you think that the congress would be considered be a problem for the president. Well. That's a good question but that would mr. actually there's two exceed. News items that are happening the last few days since the present him out of the announcement one that members of congress especially Republicans in the house. Make taking the stand saying you're not to be able to do this note and after that you know maybe passed the bill and maybe. You know then veto vascular that's he would veto it yet but. You know there have been lawsuits regarding Boehner as artists to the president for. At overstepping his bounds they may do so again and and stop this and so and also what you've seen that I believe it was AT&T announced. That they're going to stop investing. In the air is much in the air around in their networks until all of this kind of stuff shakes out and just the words of Barack Obama has already shaken the markets Telecom. Our arms are I guess he provider. Stocks are went down 5% and one day just because of what the president said that's how much damage can be done by people meddling from Washington. Let's go to Dave for Jim lately in the heartland is to date bureau Mike Hsu of how we call our hello there. Parity act too big or cute tabs on both suck really and why is that the Internet is city's yellow for. It is the ultimate free speech who'll and that is what net neutrality all what was the what it was all about a decade ago when he tried to. It's about political speech now they're trying to say it's about this murderer knew them like I'll give me break it really think we're that stupid. They really you know we're not that's who we're not stupid to believe the emails disfigured discussion reputed as well she's. You know I mean really we're not stupid they want control the Internet so that they can access so they can decide who gets to say what where and who gets the speed who doesn't. Any panic government gets involved with anything it always gets where. They have no real talent other than the ability to get elected. So they shouldn't be running communications company they shouldn't be writing insurance companies picked up the church keep streets clear put out fired. And keep our enemies who and that's what governments are established. Well you have a down cold unfortunately they don't. Let's go to Lanny next somehow government likes to encroach on our lives let me hero Mike Siegel for Howie Carr with our guest Jim likely from the heartland institute fellow. I'm Mike MGM. A couple things I am wanna bees and consumers which you guys to. At RIA. And I used Netflix and Hulu a tremendous. I'm you know first stop it it's really picking a double wanna go. I don't want the government regulating hardly any. It bought. You know I eat Internet service providers can somehow but apparently you. The Internet works in which guards text and eat carp of weapons or so. They haven't done it yet have they. Percent. The Eagles because they'd been. Google company. Warned net neutrality. Accompanied come out and saying what because. Electric. Watch as opposed to a lot their work are work are we one dollar for every. Put your network for. Little more women now if you use Netflix that's by choice. The Internet service providers monthly fee to get to the Internet. It is in a competitive environment. If they start raise a matter of fact let me tell you something I called my provider. I've had him for years and I said look he just raised the rate I'm not gonna pay that rate. A go elsewhere they immediately brought back to worry was. I mean you can do that with credit card company you can do that I mean that's the private sector you can be competitive in the private sector. Absolutely not now when not Comcast is they emerge would order there's respect our service provider in what about age. Competition call in many areas. You know it's not as competitive as it. I'd let me let me get to that point Lenny and I thank you for calling a missed a missed likely is it true that there is less competition today. Regarding Internet service providers than it was say five years ago. Now it's it's not true and fact most of most. Cases of lack of no really good competition abroad and is because of government regulations and end up monopolies that. Localities set up like we only will have won a cable company here or we will actually this is the worst part is that. Government decide to set up their own broadband companies which are always the poorest service and in the in the city. And that discourages more private investment for more broadband companies coming in did you know. I hope your listeners are not thinking that I said that. But wait free markets work our present perfect system if everything is imperfect there are always problems are always conflicts and the things are worked out best they they're churned through. By the decisions that consumers send and providers. And vendors do with each other and not by having the government set the rules and make all the decisions and decide what is best for everyone. Well you don't look at them and this is different subject but DirecTV is the one services having a problem. With people on the West Coast because of the pac twelve they don't they they didn't cut a deal with the pac twelve. You know UCLA USC. Are in Oregon State augmented that this great schools there Arizona Arizona State so Utah so. You have a choice of nobody's forcing you to take DirecTV you can go to the dish you can go to walk cable service and you can use an antenna if you want for them out of Miami eight you know you're you're not. The bad this is not by requirement. And if there if if enough people. Get upset about Internet service provider. Same thing can happen you can go elsewhere if if Netflix charges too much Netflix went through a crisis when they tried to split off. The downloads from the actual physical dvds. They separated at that was a catastrophe for awhile. And the public it was hard part about them that's right and and the chairman of the company's that I made a mistake. He put out a public letters so the public does have an impact in the private sector you wouldn't. When it came to the government running its sergeant Murphy is next for mr. lake police sergeant Iran would Mike Siegel. I'm more afraid of and we Clark and I'm right and you're gonna. Cut me off I'm afraid because and I am a conservative caller people know that that was the show but I'm also got a that accuses you both. All on the net neutrality argument because we're talking about is the government at the end. And that's like you know the big red signal called serve and I understand that but. It's also an opinion that you maintain the status quo that they. You know. What cable companies are really work out exactly what what what color you are an accident which just. Everybody pretty it will nobody wants it expands its people on the packages. We're just going straight to Netflix. And that acquaint art Aral point argument that all one it would do against Federer the airline companies able six. They've been here I don't know do you see once a week. We're gonna either charge you a lot or because of how much you use an airline and the airspace some of the United States. Not more seats than than. We're gonna either charge you more mature on an airplane that has a maximum speed limit of 300 mile an hour is just an attempt to maintain. The classical hate what liberty and 120 dollar a month and eel on an economy that's something I can't do. When though it's hard to Murphy just a second now would you go with your line. Analogy is wrong. I can pay for fact Whoopi Goldberg byes to first class seats. And keeps one up the issue as one anybody next door. She's done that in the past at least and if I wanted to buy. And the seats were available. All twelve let's say first class seats paid the full rate for them you better believe the airline would sell them to me and I'd be the only 11 class or chose to do that. That's that the that's not that there's no. Limit on how many seats UP to buy the whole airplane for that matter. My friend of mine sent me at a finite amount of airline seat. However the Internet in August and that going on that's. About what first or stop on that one missed likely my my reading of the researcher on this is that. That they were both at some points there running out of streaming space that there's a lot being used now we're getting near the maximum what about that. We we are getting in the maximum and an even in hard line is we're getting in a maximum as far as. As sending brought into this over the year we need to open up more spectrum and this is another problem the governor is created by the FCC here's slow walking in the idea of opening up more spectrum. The so that we can have more of them better Wi-Fi and the next three generations of Wi-Fi we'll take care bloodied access problems. But the fact is is that hard line broadband is in for lack of better now a pipe. And as I mentioned earlier at peak times every day the United States almost half of all traffic is is based on just YouTube and Netflix. And that have to be managed in the people who own these networks have the right to manage their networks I think they see fit the most efficient. Transfer of data possible to please the most customers possibly near and the sergeant. Had mentioned that. But what you wanted to maintain the status quo that it's exactly wrong and it's exactly what would happen if the government was to get in this involved. In regulating the Internet we would. Stay in the status quo and we would never know all the wonders that would happen in the future because we would have basically an Internet if the government it was recurring intranet today. In other words if its broadband and Internet was put into title to back in 1996 we would still be in the AOL. Almost dial up speed era because that's how hard would be innovating get better. And get faster because the government is in the way so cute like this if you want the status quote be stuck in amber for the next fifteen years but yet support the FCC opposing net neutrality. If you want something better. Not this next month next year in ten years from now that you have to keep the government out of getting its paws. It micromanaging and and having firms play mother may I everytime they want Internet in innovate on the Internet. I appreciate it mr. Lately at the heartland institute a great summary there and thank you for being on the programs that are. My pleasure my time have a good when Jim lately has to Mike Siegel here for Howie Clark. 451 stay with us.