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We Are Our Brains

Jan 12, 2014|

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Okay. -- ten radio I'm happy -- you're listening to. New England. Foremost addiction and mental health program. Tonight we've got two special interviews for you. The first is John -- hands interview with DF swap he's the author of we are our brains a -- biography of the brain from womb to alzheimer's and it's a little controversial -- He did everything he -- talked -- we can't do that night but you can -- -- contact us through. FaceBook or something like. And later in the show we'll bring our speakers series with an interview. With Roseanne -- she's the clinical addiction specialist and timber line homes which is a residential treatment so center. And that's can be on behavioral addiction but first we are our brains. The -- love is an internationally. Renowned researcher in neuroscience in a professor of -- by -- by altitude. At the University of Amsterdam. He's the founder of the Netherlands brain banks and the currently leads the -- psychiatric disorders research team. At the Netherlands institute of neuroscience. In 2008 he received the academy metal. For a significant role. In national and international under a science and here is done -- hands interview with professors club. -- professor Schwab welcome to return radio. Can you tell us a little bit about why you wrote this book. Well I I think it's very important that the general public knows. But. Has certain you'll sciences you Ross if India. Because it has say. Practical calls. Why do we know more now than we did ten years ago about the burning. That I enormous technical. Its process for instance in general. Is built on instructional -- that's also functional scanning collected fifty is scanned. And the the chemical composition of the -- can also be. Believe some. We'll put some compounds. And that's -- Line the other is that's what makes by policy has since bounced cement industry. And -- -- important is that we have established and they include or the station never Spain bank. -- of -- don't know brains for research purposes. So we can really. Dude in my neck whoever com. And -- -- documented postmarked -- So can you give us an example of neurological scanning that is possible two days and things we've learned from that that we couldn't do say ten years ago. Yeah I I think if you the next sample starting this only very calm don't of the day. In recent contest for the first time and distance between homosexual heterosexual. -- And this has been confirmed in different -- and essential scanning techniques and they think there's. It is called of course and tremendous that and. So. I'm assuming that's probably pretty controversial finding -- controversy as far as the study but there's. Probably some. Fairly political issues going -- with. Yes. Don't space and that's -- In the in 1990. I would sit -- Day and it's inevitable that sent several stations and I think I have that. Now I think it's that they'll accept that this. Sexual orientation. It's. Develops integrated. Before Borough of and there's nothing in this book and changed about it costs of this itself. It's so it's also a controversial. I think in in Europe and most. Places in America in the anymore but in the question I was a couple of weeks ago in Russia because my book was also translated -- question. And in Russia that it solo until that we Serb prohibits people to talk about homosexuality. This -- and vehicles they think it's contentions. That's ridiculous so what do you mean by we are. Our brains. Well it's it's clear that. -- our potentials. Have this thing that we can and all our limitations. Also our Kara our Q it's so time has devastated in the structure of the -- And that means that. The person -- are. It's. In fact there has surfaced in the structure and there's an assumption that they. This also means that. Things that you cannot possibly change. It is it true you as you know this is the show is about addiction. And mental health. Arms and that's going to be the focus of -- -- much of what we talk about. Putting your book you say that our behavior is determined by birth and you go on to say the free will. Is a pleasant delusion can you explain that. Yes -- firm. Well. If you think that we will personal -- thing you can shown that you are thinking. About everything that you decide. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- But if they do in the laboratory experiments then it becomes clear that most responsible positions. I've taken in and consciously. And also allow it might be between half a second sentence second. Those decisions speak -- conscious. And in the meantime you'll read the -- security is distinctions. So the idea that he took the decision after the liberation so it's an unconscious closeness in this business. And I can in this state that by asking you have you ever have been involved. Right yes. Yes though. And there you have following -- -- did you do that I am making -- list. -- -- people and that this side. No no I don't that. It's -- -- position and it's tremendously important and conscious decision. Because so apartment source is important for the rest of our lives. And this is just an ExxonMobil. -- so that's the most of our decisions in this way. So can we apply this to addiction there's person with a history of addiction. They're out there alcoholism and they're watching television. And a commercial for whiskey comes on television what's happening inside that. That person's brain. Ballot in in the first place this year be Avaya. The fact that. As a person is unique -- -- and different. And David go on different in the first plays bad it's genetic makeup. But then also by development early development. And in its genetic makeup. There aren't small. Differences between old people. Which -- called podium our systems. And -- mole differences in DNA can make some Gerson has any syllable. -- -- -- -- So that there is considering that the bio Psycho social. Area is is all things being equal. What is the mechanism of the brain in the attic that is is triggered and how does the triggering craving work. -- the most important thing is that. The old. Size -- that's. Lessons experiences. You've got to have city or. And then you -- in the brain means that the position. You know chemical compounds don't put me. At least in a particular brain which is there's a crumbled. And if this brain area has not so sensitive. To don't put me. Because our small changes in. Since the elements with this compound. Then people need an extra stimulus to get consistency. And he expressed stimulus can be and the -- -- And then. So they get their full -- Put yourself of this type of compounds and then the compounds. Change the chemical messengers. In the brain and ascension day. That say you need to. So you don't solution anymore rove is out to persons of this compound and then. Reasonable way. And you need more and more because says the brain and -- it's changing more and more in its chemical messages. So it's been since you you can comment to a circle. Base for bishop and very difficult the escape. So that's that's actually pretty wonderful. Explanation of news lunar science behind the dictionary you talk in your book about. Hedonistic hotspots in the -- can you explain what those are and and how they work in to boot into addiction. If I just mentioned about custom the nuclear supplements. Based consensus. If you stimulate that dynamic -- -- so if some pleasant feeling everything that -- feel expressions is quote. It is based apartments stimulus in that area. And so that Coppola Florida area -- it's our fault and they are connected in the net sir. We system. It according. When it discriminates. And SA acceptance so people it's more sensitive and all the people. And if that this says much less sensitive than. You'd look for access to liberty and that can be addictive -- -- but it can also be. -- seeking for instance. So people that do bill impeach him to get from this assembly of course has all the people -- -- a group who core group move. You talked about the genetic components and you know the social components. But again all things being equal to what are the neurological changes that that causes tipping point from casual substance use. Towards addiction in the -- That. And that is that her own ability and course. Invited genetic background. So the you boarding system. Is composed of how -- is -- options of different compounds. And all of those -- compounds so and -- lit the bit between people. Because that DNA of hope it goes differences and I think. Make of this difference. And if people have bestseller. Then they have some. Able -- system that this sir compost successful of those small alterations and make it. Much less sense this. So that this I think the basis. Welcome back. I'm heavy leniency to maintain radio. Here's part two of John -- hands interview with DS -- author of we are Arab brains. A narrow biography of the brain from the -- to alzheimer's he's -- noted Dutch researcher. And he says something's Tennessee and here is that you may wanna think about. Here's John. So in knowing in your book you talk about some of the the things that we can do that neuroscience has found about the brain in treating glitzy parkinson's and others that. Deep brain stimulation. Some of these different treatments if that's true if you can treat things like that wouldn't be possible. Or maybe it is already possible to go into the brain and just turn off the wiring in the sections that causes addiction going to be a mig two. And turned down the volume a little bit. Yes in fact that's what they do we do in terms of them in the academic medical center several stations. -- it's obvious deep brain stimulation because of addiction. And it seems quite promising. Can you tell us more about how that works. It's always difficult to. Explain indeed because it's still experimental. -- Basically assists in the nation of does -- -- system. The -- is requirements. But it collects sorts and the other coast are. Connected to a kind of -- me. Which is -- an electrical impulses and the nature of those pollsters and the -- to elect defense the aspect. And this is. Who not only for -- -- prediction that. It's also useful excessive compulsive people -- is. So people that divorced and sixteen post and they can't do anything else. The washing their hands and decision -- go to a and ended. The only problem or half an hour potatoes or they can have a normal Africa. So and that this I think it's you wish for more Margaret indices also depression depression in people that cannot be seated. Effectively -- it's their medications. So I could tip the -- had an addict to vote in different place in the -- enterprises singular cortex and and this isn't safe effective in the short to file. They feel. -- that it isn't that symbols. So there -- many applications of this you take. Is there any way. To know what happens to our brains when people go into recovery from addiction what what physiologically happens to the brain. But I you can see that dysfunction is also suffering so. That I accept that they're doing addictions the bring this change thing it's activity in many -- Because of the addictive compounds. And unity closely received. That changes are going back. It's put at school to say that all of the addictive compounds. In Europe on the brave. Because they assemble. Chemical message is. That's -- make ourselves. Or they -- home messages. In our brains so. It's say they'll indicate it's been in our normal brain function. So for instance compound -- Opiates. Our brain cells make okayed and he uses -- -- chemical. Messenger. So that's the reason that opiates are so effective in Spain and that can also be used as they -- Because as interfering -- normal chemical messengers in the and the same also for alcohol a local restricting. Mainly by. Well off the maintenance means this and as things got. I've heard you know that people. Particularly methamphetamine. Addicts or people with extended manic episodes can. Damaged their brains irreparably by not giving enough rest and not having enough sleep cycles is there a point that we know that. Damage to the brain cannot be restored is there an age where rebuilding is is not able to happen. An incidental damage to -- campaign is very difficult to this story. So it's different from a functional changes that. Brought about in this itself states as of addiction. That if you really -- instability and then it's very hard to this story. Sanctioned again in and then they'll vote. So. It's it's infection to talk about -- justices feel -- -- -- -- city limits its and then mania limit it to memory functions. -- let me ask you this way and do our -- stopped growing in our development. -- that they themselves so are all forums around the age of Adam four. Of them early in development. And then there's out coal or fibrous and form formation of connections. And it goes along until. Let's say the age of 74. And at the age of 74 have been the greatest achievement to. There are a elsewhere in assistance to change so the connections to the net skills instead of -- and you can make new connections. And don't say it that are involved in memory because memory is quoted by changes in Synaptics mentioned. Equipment is it -- That says that no news sells for around except from fuel very small area in the bills who. And those. Themselves as some particular function for instance pushed -- That incidentally in the brain there's no formation of new spells. Out the gates or. When does play assisted he. Stop occurring in this in the adult brand. If indeed scientists disappear also in terms of memory corruption and Collison -- -- That this system. My coat type of this is that the so that changes in this thing. All of the connections between themselves. But says the formation of new stills as possible. Can you tell us about drug use in adolescence. And what are there risks to the developing brain. Well in them. Docents. Many young people use a lot of alcohol and and this has shown to be 22 at least two let score and assumptions. Two memory problems and also to be -- of problems. And -- -- said that the brain is still maturing into the gates sent before. And that means that in default to participate in that is very important for a high assumptions. -- alcohol can have and it's cement could affect stability and Soviets and or at least so. That does this really a problem in addition. So compounds. Like some of this can be it's sick effort schizophrenia. So basic -- the number of people coming in for the first time this anti socialist it's a yeah after blowing. Come of this. There and then people than some of the newer strains of Canada's ten. Can trigger people that might be predispose. Them to Psycho -- is that true. Yes absolutely true yes. And that's especially true in the Netherlands where they have cookies Dalia potent that type of -- of this. And come of this psychosis is sort of unknown here. We've heard some of the stories about people who have Parkinson's disease are treated with I think it's old Oprah. And -- and being developed a gambling addiction that they had no predisposition before can you talk about that. Yes and that goes back to have a say told you about. And people are sent -- That this -- have don't put me. So they've taken compound that is also affecting that he -- -- system and they can change their habits in continue for its. And indeed taken. Gambles taken by enormous complexes -- of those who don't have any money. And the same historic and the -- people actually since this has -- discrimination. And the same people have the same -- risks. Since his -- also deepen homelessness can pick. If we're able to do these things and we're able to pin point. You know of the seed of pleasure in the brain were able to pinpoint where schizophrenia. You know the predisposition to -- Are are we able to predict prenatal he. What kind of and then engineer what kind of people we wanna be your work. What this person's risk is towards mental illness or addiction. -- earth are we able to do that should we be doing -- Well I think we. He can do it already for quite apart because if you realize that schizophrenia. From more than 8% to Synaptics. Then it's possible to. To its basics and I think they're back of defeat as. Yes it's possible. The same calls for. Some addictions yes you can see that -- type of -- -- -- -- If -- hiatus for addiction. Things like that and the -- indeed should it to them. It's it's it's a slippery slope -- the -- Yes in this. In the first place of course. Because. Insurance companies have famous. Interest in this because if they would know -- thing you would get -- Throw at you talk about the role of that you know generic pre is disposition plays and -- -- other science has been able to isolate certain genes. Can you tell us about the DRD four gene. Yes and that's in effect but I had told -- about the sensitivity. For that. That they compounds. And four medieval origins and those sort of the year before. Can -- -- indifference says types depending on small alterations of the DNA. It's going to be more sense if or less since this would go for me. And that may accept people more or less. There's so -- for addiction. And -- shares -- -- example often. Compounds that says these terms to -- them in the. I'm sure you're you're familiar with with the possible criticism that is there a danger of us putting too much weight. On the idea of neural imaging in other words can we read into them anything that we want to do to prove our hypothesis is there is there the danger. Well in this -- science and best science and include sense as well that the things. And science is always correcting itself if it's not -- them it's been a bit pieces of the people. So. Distinction I can policy that -- dangers of an issue of this type of moments I think if you would make some public and if you look into pedophilia. For instance. It's possible at this moment just. To quote amendment in this scan and show them they definitely. Picture us of men and movement of children bush in -- different pitches. And look and and mesh and then the immediate response of the -- Which is not a conscious. That's responses in the news there's -- and from that you can say about you very heterosexual -- -- homosexual men you -- it civic and and you prefer it goes from borrowers from both. And that means that. You could also. In this way. Select people for some jobs represent people to have some jokes and this couple things can be mr. hoops to. Just one last question professor -- of what. Can neuroscience to do to help explode the stigma about addiction. Well I think. Two. Detected very early states socializing risk. And helped them to police and to be -- -- And again this might have to change also labeling people. On the other hand it's my present a lot of problems. And the same calls for instance frank sessions so. It's possible not to -- And those people and those skates at the age of sort of macho. That has it is. Of coming into conflict is imminently. If they aren't -- to him that I took a you can in many instances that tremendously. So. I think that's again if those techniques. Carefully you stick in the yet. Been essential. Thank you so much for taking time for us today on -- through radio professor -- we really appreciate. This wonderful book we are our brains. And we appreciate your your further work in the field of neuroscience thank you so much. Well -- local that I. About. You're listening to -- ten radeon WRKO. Six AD AM. Yeah. It's. Welcome back. I'm MED I mean you're listening to -- ten radio on WRKO succeeding AM. So things. I I'm professor's lab says we're a little -- It made me worry a little but I thought it was -- look back at that later. But we can now bring you another interview from our speakers series. Which is rate ten radios collection and exclusive interviews with the nation's leading specialists in the dictionary can reach fields. And here's what he teaspoons interview with Roseanne -- she's a clinical addiction specialist. At timber line Knowles residential treatment center. In -- night and it's a very well known organization she's gonna talk about behavioral addictions. This is the speaker series presented by right -- radio and we're live at the foundations recovery networks. Moments of change conference. Hi my name is woody Eastman and I'm here with -- and rock of Cumberland. Rose -- thank you so much for joining -- -- welcome. And so you're presenting at the conference can you just social and about the present. Yes we're -- percent current process addictions in eating disorder population. And a title -- intimacy intensity and entry. And the reason that we actually came up at tight ends that I'll pass this addiction just like the substance abuse eating disorders. I actually an unhealthy relationship. And has all of the same set of intimacy and intense. And intrigue is what lures people went on addiction and so for our listeners when we talk about process addictions we talk about non chemical addictions we're talking about. A range. Predictions that are don't involve drugs right it's behaviors. Silence editing Justine and chemical. It's an -- now he feared that produces the same high as a substance split and it it actually has all the same criteria. That you use that would me what would consider substance abuse and departments in the is required treatment so -- a little bit about your present. It will look at present is. The idea that passes addiction isn't theory it's very hard for people to see it a lot clinicians don't ask the right questions. Somebody comes in -- in eating disorders substance abuse that's for their tree. C crops and patient column occurring is more content. And often act caught so what we wanted to do is to educate people and exactly how to point out. What a relationship addiction life. Sex and love people pick up sex addiction and real easy -- -- definition. Relationships. Is -- -- serious addiction a lot of that would mean currently. And Amy -- free substance however there -- out addictive relationship. Could be. So -- do presentation and actually go through some of the profits addictions. Beanie and iron shot mean. Relationships. Were touched on working -- each which actually -- that often go unnoticed. And -- that we'll get an idea what to look for other criteria. And how to treat it isn't his cult. You know you talked about a hidden addiction in that it's someone's drinking what we know that they're drinking and if they're using some form of drugs or medications are abusing medications and we know that. But what you're talking about. Is an addiction that -- much you know the right questions to ask you probably and I think knocking it down to the bottom. Correct I think the word addiction is thrown out. You hear people say oh I'm addicted to chocolate and addicted to this and that's it I don't know people notice when you actually addicted. And until they have some of the education or second noticed the same patterns. In fact in one of the groups that we run into nine dollars and which I start you list called relationship addictions. And we talk about their eating disorders substance whatever it is it's been unhealthy relationship. I've actually had them right -- buy cars and let me read then you -- now they're saying goodbye to a substance. Of the Hearst and let one of the disorders and I memory and you wouldn't actually know who they are saying good night. Our listeners may identify with gambling as an addiction it's not something that you see people drinking out of a bottle but yet they disappear. And they go often to this kind of unhealthy behavior and in typically when we find out about it instantly. Cracked and that's what happens is it's not panic and 11. Substance or alcohol even eating disorders. People pick up her and other behavior. I can justify it saying well at least I'm not doing that Susan. Eight and let it happen and as ever behaviors that they are being engaged and in sentencing consequences. Use CNET two -- team. Using -- Ford Ford feel any. They need to do it more and more -- they start to a lot of consequences. And if they're not getting right back I think it back to the first addition hat. And let's throw shopping in as an example says something you Democrat. Game. -- one thing it's rainy. Out and because we apps that cost. You. We can't. Charged up hunters on the color. In -- use. It behind it and I it's you know is. Asking questions. -- -- and that's why she is here. -- speaker. She. Couldn't leave. Her kids cry. And when she -- to keep -- yes. He missed. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- They're out. Hey and I don't think you're -- -- eat here she's well liked him a lot of colors. Obviously at. -- point. Here. You know and it's tough and and I and you seem like -- very kind and gentle person. With the tough job because you're joneses who developer relationship with these people. And then help them confront. So. You have to coming. So. Eight and recovered now. So congratulations me units and I. Mean this to me every rule in -- Indications. -- likely to -- and I am talking to you and they -- Being ill. Economy and eve in. Times and it. Well well now. They. Are. Certain. -- Yeah it doesn't work that way. They'll trust -- No trust you know listen to you if they try you know and if you take the time to listen to them develop a relationship that you have a tough job. -- it's funny it's you're asking someone to talk about something that you can't see on their person. You're asking someone to two reveal their secrets. Absolutely any secrets they don't want to give up you know some -- coming in favorite coming in for. And eating disorder and we pick up their relationship then there don't wanna go there when we actually have somebody that it was evidence needed in this relationship. And she said no way she wouldn't talk about it she ended up coming back she had read that severely. She had gone back into this relationship. We're not only was it drug using she always thought she would be very -- and -- hands so it. Going back to him was basically she was going to -- certain she came back and she was then able to say I need to address this relationship. And so it's a part of the process. And you leave the door open your door open to them to come back. -- In kind of a Psycho educational way it's what I. Hear -- saying. Is that addiction is addiction is addiction and addiction even if it's chemical addiction. That it sometimes resembles the process addiction and the treatment seems to be similar. At the same thing that any kind of attic like Tuesday if they want to be unique so Ali thank you recently and it. And went and argument that and a group -- how can it work right now -- ET. We're not eighteen old green. Cut eighteen substances. Right now we're not doing it are seen in this stuff and so that he has the same. And recovery is saying the same steps that need to end so. If someone were to go to war with Q what was the expectation. That they would see in residential program with you yet and for a long. Now they're gays and whoever came up at eight days. We know -- -- that. It was the insurance company and -- Carolina and does not mean there's. -- and I feel. Fine. So orders actually. Should take on. This. And there's. I would say we liked. Three cars in and so if you had agreements with someone you can begin to relieve. Get down to the bottom of this and help them learn how to manage the symptoms there disease. Each month and right there -- 838. When it. It. There. Is -- Where it. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- That. And forget. That corporate. And there's more of police interview with -- -- of timber line mills right after the break. You're listening to -- ten radeon WRKO. Six AD AM. And the. -- Welcome back I'm having seen the -- listening to maintain radio and Demi are can't succeed the AM. And you listen here's part two please interview with Roseanne wreck. Clinical addiction specialist at Timberland Knowles when we come back after this onion attached to you about why I think. So things that we've heard -- -- controversial. The insurance companies say -- pay for maximum days. And you know who knows wells I know that -- a process and you may see someone. A few times before they get to the process. Very -- into the process of recovery. But it seems like from where I'm sitting here. You just seem to be this kind and gentle person who welcomes people. Oh absolutely and a lot of times there and they're like a sudden they actually feel like there's a disappointing. Yeah sometimes you'll see me turn their hat and now lie -- -- -- -- -- -- I'm always glad for them to be back. And just you know they don't lose ebony and whatever they had money had they come right back and they can pick up and we -- re messing forward. Just learn learn a lot when Enron. And legal. Counsel look at what happened what didn't work for you went to work for you and then they'll. You know it's sounds line. You provide a full range of services while they're impatient with Q. And so when someone's leaving you and I both know that the longer someone's in treatments -- -- the outcome. And so when someone's leaving how to they stay connected -- Nobody leaves. Out here. Where. It's. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- mean. There's there. And leave there. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- We have. Each has. Its ban on me the girls can meet. Me here. Who works just she works page and that. Is. And so they can stay connected to treatment and also to each other absolutely absolutely in May they every. Means that France and -- Syrians. In. And did a very short time in many. Like it now. The work that we do is so important but that period appeared peace can be so important sometimes. Absolutely and it hasn't changed -- there -- mean. It. And and the connection and it's it's been Q4 -- name. The we hear the ears -- college -- me. Out here in hockey. And the group that. There's an -- And and lets me -- here here here here. And it is what I I just twelve step groups that. And you know for our listeners and the question. Where do you find your passion. You've been doing this for a long time. Here. It. -- Broke. It just. -- -- -- And easy. To their face light to me. -- And you know it must help because that's someone you identified with more -- term recovery. The you're sending a very strong message to people more and more convenience. And meaning it. Just one hours two hours at me. Through you eat. A certain way. And they -- you. -- it for its group. They see me. It's an important connection. Important answer. So if someone's listening right now and they wanted to reach out -- -- in the firing you or your program to finals isn't talent. Actually your. Follow up round the clock and it's -- out he absolutely can reach me at her rock. Are are okay. -- line -- stack or you can reach me number is 630. 239184. And I would answer any questions. Because they know the process addiction theory it's time and so the last messages for some -- someone's listening in the need help. But would you say to eyewitness saying that there is. A solution. That there are answers you can live a meaningful life no matter how many times it adds. It's -- And we know that treatment works and treatment is available so. Rose and Brooke thank you so much for taking time you're busy schedule my -- what he KeySpan in -- listening to -- turned radio Roseanne's pleasure meeting you thank you thank you. And that is to to really interesting. People speaking about what they do an parents talked a little about the for the first guy. -- professor swap was talking about how it's all predetermined and I know that. The producer and I were sitting there saying do you have no feel well and I think the point of it is there's some things that are pre determined -- -- herded to become addicted you're likely headed to be. A certain way in the world. But there's a lot of ways you know you can change things. And I think that's really important when we also and we are talking that Roseanne -- I think that process addictions are really important because so many people like isn't just an excuse to they -- their behavior. And I think it's really important and we're gonna do a show on that in the future. Also in the future we're having the governor of Vermont probably next week he just dedicated his whole state of the union. Thing to. Address to land addiction and -- crown. Com thank you -- -- Ed Sweeney Sweeney. Just remember there's hope. Be safe and ask for help.