Jun 16, 2010|
Tom Finneran and Todd Feinburg moderate the first gubernatorial debate in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts between Governor Deval Patrick, Charlie Baker, and Tim Cahill
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
Good morning and welcome to the common -- show thanks to all the candidates. The making -- thanks to our sponsors SP allied. When it comes -- life insurance the choice of course is easy SP -- is the no nonsense life insurance company and you can visit SP alike cup dot com today. What could realtors is also sponsored if you need more space at weicker. They can relate call weicker realtors. Also brought to by the Massachusetts right to repay a coalition it's York -- get it fixed -- you want to. And -- -- here we -- we've got to candidates and John -- I normally rock bands that start with the governor Governor Patrick thanks for being here today thank you thank. -- thank you Tom for having us today thanks to Tim and and and Charlie for a get together I was teasing Charlie outside -- My appreciation for. Being invited onto his show. -- Doesn't you're gonna you're gonna hear a -- in a minute I'm sure from from. Tim and Charlie about what's wrong with -- chooses sides let's start with what's right with Massachusetts we are. Coming out of the worst recession in living memory faster and stronger than the rest of the country we had in April the largest single monthly job -- and seventeen years a third month in a row. A business confidence home sales retail leasing neurosurgeon. Young people and families are moving in the Massachusetts for the first time in twenty years. Faster than they -- moving out which is great news. Meanwhile we're first in the nation in student achievement in health care coverage for our residents in veterans' services in clean and alternative energy especially energy efficiency. And we got a great record on reform in terms of the ending abuse in the state pension system we've. Tighten the ethics and lobbying rules and shut down the turnpike authority. We've had and enacted the most sweeping education reform in seventeen years there is a lot more to do. And that's like Tim and I are seeking a second term as we wanna finish what we started and I want to thank you for a having -- and look forward to the conversation -- Thank you governor let's go then met him is next for his opening statement -- -- him a big thank you very much governor threw me off recent -- my third. Yeah I thought so bizarre that I am are you get enough I got a tip my rights -- well thank you all very much thank you Tom and Todd thank you RKO. Thank you governor Charlie I appreciate the opportunity to be here thank you for including me as independent in this race. It means a lot to me enemies ought to make people out fear that I'm included -- wanna think the wind business partnership. How much was he speaking their little while and it graciously allowed me to come a little bit late so normally hear a little bit early but given the opportunity to speak here. To wider audience but also to business group upper -- which is a very important part of our state. I'm running as an independent because I think the party system is broken down. I don't think Republicans or Democrats have the solutions to our problems anymore. And I think I do have the solutions to our problems and about fixing what's wrong in government I also come here is a different different from right. Two opponents is on the only one that doesn't come from corporate world -- -- -- small business background when I was 23 years old I started my own business in Quincy. And -- for the next twelve years any gay media experience I think is necessary. And a voice and I'll bring to Beacon Hill that is often not -- which is the voice of the small business the voice of the middle class and I think that's what's missing in government right now. Whatever is broken can be fixed. But we can only succeed if we work together we work across party lines. And we look for solutions whether -- from the right from the last Democrat or Republican there were really focus on what's important in this state which is helping middle class people. Keep more of their money and helping small businesses grow our economy. Parents thank you simply help. Jiang -- try to appreciate the chance to be here appreciate the governor in the treasure being here as well. Let me just surface and I'm not a politician. My my my -- I've never run stay away before until I don't where companies can help. They're very good campaign is an -- still -- a bit about that. But what I have done over the course of my career has managed big organizations out of difficult situations in gyms and that's what the state is really gonna need right now and going forward. For the past three years the governor in the treasure in the rest of leadership Palm -- you know. Have been raising taxes cutting local aid spending when times state and federal funds. And not solving the State's fiscal crisis and kick him McKenna head today we still face. Looking forward into next year and the year after a two billion dollar to three billion dollar structural deficit that's gonna have to be fixed somehow one way or the other. And this simply has to stop. People had enough of this they've had enough for state government claimed by different -- rules that they've been claimed by as they've been tightening their belts a little with the new normal. And I have a plan to do this the world to get it done and the experience based on my career in turning around both Harvard pilgrim and working in the world who salutes you ministers in the 1990s turnaround state government. My opponents are good guys but they had their opportunity to reform state government get the budget and control and they didn't. I can get this done I know I can get this done because I've done it before and I look forward the opportunities -- people Massachusetts. -- thank you John of those are opening same -- worn -- just gonna have a conversation about issues. I'll start off by asking a question the governor -- the other two -- you should feel treated gonna jump in and and respond to what he has to say and will. Just be often running at that point governor -- Charlie just alluded to. Shortfalls in the budget coming after next year around words of three billion dollars estimated. And we've been filling in our last couple years using extra bonuses being sent down from Washington to keep things afloat. Is that a mistake would've been better to confront. That the declining. Resources earlier and not use. Rainy day fund not use federal dollars instead make the cuts earlier and be ready for what's coming. Well first of all we've made a lot of cuts we've had a very blended approach to this such a downturn we've. Cut. In many cases worthy programs and services at four and a half billion dollars in in services that we've cut out this budget we've eliminated. Over 2600 positions more to come we've gotten concessions from them. State today employee unions he's -- furloughs pay freezes frankly what everybody else is had to do which is figure out how to make due with less. The rate of spending. Increase since I've been in office is frankly half what it was when when Charlie was in charge of of the state budget so and I will also say this. RM stewardship of this budget through this crisis has been. Has been complemented incited by the rating agencies in giving us. I double A bond rating twice now so yes they are very very difficult choices that have to be made that we must continue to make because we are not added this. Yet and as you know Tom -- you'll do you remember this. The state revenue all government revenue is backward looking you're looking at your view cookie cook collecting taxes based on up past instead of instead of going. Instead of going forward so we got some challenges yet. Ahead but when I think about the people who depend on those services. The the seniors who are depending on help from their state government so vulnerable people homeless people. Who were depending on -- help the teachers and students who are depending on those sustaining of of state support for public schools and I think we did exactly the right thing by taking this splendid approach. I just think that if you can all do respect for governor I think we spent diary defund this is Tim Cahill talked about like health we spent dollar rainy day fund to quickly. Too fast we spend on about a billion I think 1000000009. -- in two years and is the stimulus money is gonna be gone at the end of this year his post last three years. So electing more blended approach more cuts as opposed to. Using all the stimulus money as you said Todd. The day of reckoning is coming -- have to make those serious cuts next year. It's going to be hard to do that especially if we're trying to talk about bringing taxes down at the same time the government has to learn to live with less. All of the stimulus money are 90% of the stimulus money has gone to prop up the public sector none of it really and I don't just mean here in the state I mean in the country. None of it has really gone to really incentivizing build up the private sector jobs. And that's where stimulus really should needs to go. If we just continue to prop up state government and public sector jobs is not going to be any private sector money. To grow our economy and two page -- -- how -- judges. On one point on this -- You know their rainy day fund has 2.4 billion dollars when the governor took office and he started spending their rainy day fund before it started to rain we were the state of Massachusetts. And Tim you and say one word about that time I started I that we started spend a rainy day fund and an early 2000. And -- and we started spending -- we've spent 700 million out of that fund before the economy even started to crash Richmond that's 700 million wasn't there are spending increased 20%. During the governor's first two years office. And we've basically set ourselves up as the state to be in a position when that third downturn came. That we suffered and we suffered in a way that we're way beyond the way we would have suffered if we actually -- more more disciplined about our spending and and governor you're gonna tell you that. You talked about teachers -- been spent a lot of time in and out of schools over the course of the past few months because. Have been talking to teachers and administrators about the -- stuff from the fact that. Massachusetts keeps talking at this point in time about walking away from the MCAS nobody were talking and I -- -- little -- -- Columbia -- -- try to -- let's try to unload it and what I listen of those. Schools start what they talk about a lot is the fact that they're having to lay off teachers class sizes are getting bigger because a local aid cuts and because. Folks like you are willing to do cities and towns the same authority that you have. To manage and adjust your health insurance benefits to -- -- our friends -- -- -- -- stewardship while. On this sort of has to Al style with -- first I wanna go to your -- as well. Tim and in seven months one of these three is likely to be sworn in as the next governor -- -- -- -- with all due respect to -- Stein and others I think it's going to be one of -- -- -- at seven months ago and if have you all been on the campaign trail. Can you attempt today give us the Euro cents of a billion dollars that you would cut out this budget a billion specific cuts. Do if the if the budget deficit the structural deficit is gonna be north of tool. I'll make this easy for this is done you have to do is hit half the loaf and well. Tom what you gotta do is you you persuade him make specific cuts into you know what the situation how much money even have to make because all you're doing nanny is building up. Opposition to those cuts within the legislature within within the public sector. But if you wanna cut a billion dollars you've got a -- across the board 34%. It's got a local local -- local governments have to participate in this is well it's gotta include health care health care costs are driving a hole through these budgeting vehicle through this budget. We've got to change the way we deliver health care services that can bring down hundreds of millions of dollars we got also we've got to go with casinos. Casinos is a way maybe not in this budget cycle but casinos and slot machines are way to grow revenue not just cut revenue so it's a combination of cutting. All across the board health and human services locally with what would have learning government and local elected officials when you start picking and choosing we gonna make the cuts. Then gets very political than everywhere at such and if I'm not gonna get a cut you're not gonna get that I'm not gonna take my cut if you're gonna be. Hello -- how is that I have usually -- -- -- -- the -- leadership would look for -- governor if in fact you just say okay 4% across the board. There are some programs for the developmentally disabled who don't have the capacity drop any voting Tom -- -- don't have the ability to do anything in the Atlantic has -- dilemma isn't optional then Orlando was dramatic -- The way we've done with school buildings we've done more with less in school buildings -- still building schools is not just a question of and it -- all due respect to the governor. Into justices question throwing money at the problem we've been doing that for twenty years under Republicans in Democrats we just say if we level -- on the budget we add to the budget. Then nobody should complain. But we're not getting at the root cause a -- his -- getting wasted like it was more -- schools timber -- wasting that money now we're building schools very low cost less money it's getting delivered to local community. When -- acquiring money the way we do with the big day. Our little I was in its final is always tell me I'm Obama have been critical of the governor stewardship -- Tim just says hey SB AB. The governor says credit credit rating in the midst of the worst economy we can never remember. In your critical of these two and yet they've they're reach pretty good pretty well. About insight Elizabeth already agency's care about really is that the bondholders get paid and if we raise taxes every year for the next ten years I think they'd be perfectly fine with ethanol actually as far as I'm SI devices that's companies and -- -- -- that we had a 2.4 billion dollar. Rainy day fund which you inherited as one of the reasons why they felt we did a good job weathering -- through this the other thing they said. Who's our economy is basically driven by two big elements education and health care both of which tend not to have the same issues and an economic downturn. That other things do and and those are just. Stacks election message well let's Alan Ellis kindred ActiveX Tahoe regarding his class and come to us for alcohol on the idea that's hitting another record on about a billion in cuts I think that was a billion dollars in cuts I've proposed an about a month ago isn't especially as it was about where excessive millionaire and stay and -- will -- -- so we 600. Million B worth having in the context of where we -- now governor I mean we're looking at a 700 million dollar deficit right now for the year the budget year that starts. In two weeks that I think across the board cuts frankly. Treasure is exactly the wrong way to go the way you should fix the government. And the way you should make cuts is is not to just assume you cut flash across the board because then you end -- you do end up doing things like. We've been doing as a state cutting developmental disability programs cutting mental health programs cutting the soldiers homes. Cutting homeless programs when what we really ought to be doing this reforming the state bureaucracy and taking advantage of this fiscal crisis to clean up the -- state government looks and operates its the most complicated operating model you can possibly imagine overzealous. Earlier son daughter has got everyone -- I wanna first of all compliment both Charlie and Tim. On on a couple of philosophical points but I also wanna make some I -- clear some facts. We have we have made. A lot of these very hard -- decisions and we'll continue. To make them in the -- And the recognition from the buy an. It happened just because. It happened because that's according to the bond rating agencies because we wisely Stewart did. This budget and ahead and took what I described earlier as that blended approach a combination of cuts. Reductions in services reductions in workforce but also raising. Raising revenue. And by the way. Kudos to my predecessors. Republican governors and the democratic legislature for shoring up that that may need a funny it has been raining. In the last few years and that has actually made it down a little easier. To manage to -- wasn't easy that a little easier to manage through these these times. That combination of approach is what was acknowledged -- and complemented by the F. By the bond rating agencies that totally violating and I also say this Charlie in the eight years you Stewart did. State government you never achieved a delayed bond rating. I also wanna just give a clear message from which was basically junk bond status inherited from the last I don't I don't -- play -- tennis so where can women don't write and my. My point. -- Tim you said that the that the stimulus bill was all about propping up the private sector I've heard that. Rhetorical point lots and lots of times and that and is seasonings of the public sector sees me. I'm and it's just not this is not accurate it and it is definitely the case. That's some of that money has been used to maintain teachers in classrooms in police officers and firefighters on the street but it's also been invested in building up his broken infrastructure of ours and that in combination. We see with the state bonding that we had that we haven't that we have been able to do because of that. Bond rating and actually that you supported and I thank you I think you fourth we have the largest program to reinvest in this broken public. Infrastructure of -- in the history of the commonwealth. Very transparent and very effective and it is contributing. Two to those job numbers particularly in Indian in construction I will also see this. Challenges that we had in terms of balancing the this budget. But today and in the future will be exacerbated. If the proposals to ruled that state is. Sales and income tax and others. That does Charlie and -- have put on the table are passed on day one the it will come a time I believe. To rule those taxes Texas -- but if you really wanna see calamity tried doing that on day one. And then let's have a serious conversation about what's involved because a lot more. Gonna billion dollars that death that would have to be cut it would be several billions of dollars and right now. All across the commonwealth there are programs and people struggling. Because we're not able to do all that they want and that they need in terms of government helping them help themselves. Gotta have people go ahead and say -- you -- Charlie -- that people are startle him most up there right now the 320000. People are out of work. Who live in a state. That has in many respects across every measure you can think of the least competitive position to possibly have with regard to the cost of doing business the cost of government the cost of taxes the cost of determining the cost of energy the cost of everything. And we are not as a state well positioned at all. To deal with those issues that we don't get serious about dealing with our tax policy our fiscal policy and regulatory policy nor hear you say. That. You know we can't cut taxes will bottom line is over time we're gonna have to reduce our tax burden if we're serious about competing. With all these states that have been taken jobs and economic opportunity from us for the better part of ten here's this week there. I don't wanna follow the national -- we are wanna leave it we are leading -- Charlie -- happening right now but governor -- -- -- -- you can -- where any number of independent united take my word for it. He -- independent analyses and economists who are saying that we hear coming out of this recession faster and stronger. Then the rest of the country regaining jobs faster aren't that is a million years even though our jobs. Well you know because and other studies talked about declaring unilateral bundle. Yes Jesus is a good state. Governor has done a good job in tough circumstances not as bad as Charlie says what's not as good as the governor says he'd. You know we're in the middle right now we're in the middle of the pack in the people who are suffering are people who are working in the middle class that's right the middle class is getting squeezed with taxes. We too much government. He would not need help in corporate corporate America is not helping the middle class in big governments are helping the middle class. It's those -- the folks we have to work force that we do have to bring down the cost of government in taxes we may not be able to do on day one governor. You know we don't work with the legislature on this but we have to start bringing down the cost to middle class Massachusetts residents. So they can keep more than money so they can focus on putting food on the table keeping a roof over they had. Importing their own kids through school. And not have to be as dependent. On government as we seem to be. Where depending on federal government local governments -- depending on -- it's a culture of dependency -- has to start to end one of the ways you do that is to shrink the size of government. In one of the way to do that is to bring taxes government taxes for the middle class really. He's what have to be brought down so that we can start not only putting people back to work but giving those middle class people little bit more money to spend. How they wanna spend as opposed to how we want. To snag please build until this point because I think and as we might agree. It's not whether to bring taxes down its wind. And as we grow and as the economy can I get stronger and it's tax revenues are restored. I'm all in favor of the idea ruling deck I Texas and I think we gotta have a serious conversation about what is the right balance. In those in those tax got a similar image or bad weather with respect to that you want to do go around to you go ahead to go to this finish this point of you know we have. We have now. Been rated by CNBC the -- this state in the nation which to do business upfront. Up from fifteenth just two years ago -- -- terms of our cost of doing the game that came. The associating and she's in Massachusetts. Has has a survey showing that business confidence surged in the month of may. Thirteen out of the last fifteen months -- it's gone up homes sales are are going out. Retail leasing is going up we're not out of this yet. You know if you don't want out of work you could care less what the statistics say it's really -- -- spoke to -- right we gotta keep we gotta keep going. But to say that everything is broken is just not borne out by he had by the facts and having -- say is that we've cut. Corporate taxes. Date they started going down in this guy at last count the year they go down for each of the next. A couple of years. I think -- is an element not the sole element but an element. And how this economy of ours is recovering according to Philadelphia -- it's more than recovering itself performing 48 other states. Let's switch already illegal immigration which is say hot topic in the state and around that we trivia question -- and if -- there there are proposals in front of the legislation the Senate has passed one that would do restrict access to. Social services on the part of people aren't in that country legally governor let's our review what would your response would be too that if -- came across your desk -- sign that into a lot. Well so first of all let me just say -- down illegal immigration is a national problem. It requires a national solution which is why I and others and I think I'm my colleagues here as well I have supported the idea of comprehensive. Immigration reform in the congress and I understand it is time. And maybe and most especially at a time when resources are limited. That people are very very concerned that only those who are eligible for those resources. I have access to those resources is public. Public benefits we have lots and lots of rules already in place. That screen out those who are not eligible if somebody gave me a memo the other -- inning was over thirteen pages of the individual rules and regulations that limit. Public benefits to it to citizens or legal. Legal. Taxpaying and I immigrants we have a responsibility to enforce those rules and accept this responsibility. Now the Senate amendment is concerning to me a couple of levels first of all of these damages restates what world already doing. It seems to be unnecessary and when you think about all the other important business payment reform and in terms of controlling health care costs. The gun bill. It seems to me at the end of the legislature could more productively spend its time on things we we have gaps in the law rather than not rather than adding to it but it also. -- is over reaching I think you know it did it sweeps in arguably. Veterans and count stare. Welcome home bonuses is via a program that we put in place. In the last in the last few years it has recognizing combat suffering of National Guard and other issues. Who served the country it it may reach the legal taxpaying immigrants legal. Meaning fully documented. Taxpaying immigrants you also may conflict with federal law in which case we're setting ourselves up for -- for losing. And costly litigation enemy also ahead at -- so I'm concerned about the Senate and and I think I understand what's motivating it's not. And I basically assists those problems with -- then you'd be on board I think look at the point is just let's have a law that says the world are already doing. You know that's a different. Twelve people -- to any living in public housing people know that good college kids. Go and who were in the country illegally -- can apply to state schools and there's no. Structure in place to catch the fact that they're not entitled to instate tuition. Well actually there's a federal law that prohibits instate tuition right now and it's a matter of policy at the sure -- is dim -- how to -- -- garrison how of the kids get filtered out tour well it's a different question about their ability to go at all. Right now they don't know this is unknown for instate tuition. Well -- you know you have to you have to show a year on year immigration status when you go to when you go to colleges and universities today. And if you are a if you're an undocumented person you get charged now safe -- tuition you know here's the thing I I've I've. It's it's a via. -- is it weighs on me you know we have a M I can name. Two or three. T isn't in the city. Fourteen year old who lost their lives to guns. We can't seem to get any action on that in the in the legislature I can't name two or three. Undocumented people were getting benefits to which they are not. They are not entitled does not that this is -- a serious issue. It's not that -- I think you have we ought to be we ought to be real clear that we got a lot of rules in place right now we are enforcing those rules. We set a reminder around agency heads just just yesterday about the importance of enforcing those that are. Those rules I'm not quarreling with the media with the rules -- just saying look we get a lot of other business that is about filling gaps. I in the -- today and and this is -- again. Current tumor Charlie -- and I would yeah I would fully support the -- amendment as it's been presented to toughen up rules. So that people who are legally here don't get. State benefits it it goes back to the economy issue we can't afford to do it. You know we can talk about the moral issue all we want we can afford and don't and I don't already do -- can't afford to give people benefits. Was there be instate tuition or benefits public benefits public housing food stamp turning that. Who want documented -- here legally -- just and I clear when not giving them well don't let this tightens up the rules to make sure that it doesn't happen and nobody slips through the cracks and really defines it and then the agencies enforce those slot on in full on form force and because the big frustration here. It's true that is really through not to people then he elect me 345 generations it's the folks who went through the system legally. It is a very kind cumbersome burdensome system. To become a legal US citizen and for people who go through the system and play by the rules. To have someone cut in front of them in front line just doesn't is not share. So I would do everything we that I -- as governor to enforce here in the state of Massachusetts. Legal immigration and enforce. Illegal immigration and make sure that we rooted out and I would give our public safety fish is both state and local police the tools to make sure. Then if someone breaks a lot and they are undocumented that that can be part. Of the policing duties that they can document it in use it as a way to get these people aren't the state and that's not necessarily being done. And remember there are other things of that -- legislation in addition to the state benefits -- Also gives private employers the ability to access the federally verify system to determine if the people they're hiring are here illegally. That also requires a valid ID driver's license from the show up to register. The motor vehicle and also requires people -- their reduced immigration status. Third defendant. Before the court of law mean the whole bunch of additional things here that applied this notion that we wanna make sure we know. What people's immigration status -- going to be engaged with the public sector in the public systems I think that's a good thing that the other thing I would say in addition to that. His you know I was in Plymouth yesterday talking to them into small business is one of -- was a contractor in one of whom was a landscaper. And they both said they get up every day and they. You know they pay taxes they pay workers' comp they pay unemployment insurance or pay health insurance and employees they play by the rules systems what it. And they feel. Many most a lot of the time like they're chumps because they know they're competing against employers. Who are claiming game under the again assistant sheriff there they're hiring people you know what a day -- who are here illegally and grant and that's you know frankly it's this it's there's. There is you know there's exploitation going on their whole bunch of other things. In addition to the illegality of it and and and these guys basically said look you know. In a down economy like this where everybody's scrape in for every nickel and dime they can find this puts me at a terrible competitive disadvantage because I'm playing by the rules in my costs -- while tired can I just -- -- -- and that but register that the premise of they don't have to but I can say is you know. Talk radio these ethnic you know these guys have been a Beacon Hill for the past four years and nothing's happened on this that's wrong people -- talking about this for the past four years it's something that a lot of what should I should -- I wanna talk about health. There were clearly illustrates I'm just it just it just on them on the point just again let's get to that we talk about these issues important issues but let's be fact face. I -- agree with Charlie about the concern. Small businesses who are and others who were playing by the rules and are being gained by a an out competed by folks who are not. And the exploitation that's going on a network -- -- why in the very first year. This administration we put in place and underground. Underground economy task force which is in enforcing precisely these rules. And in terms of verifying. Employees and their immigration status. That is a requirement now federal law. You have to file -- 99. It has to be. It's subject to the I nine audit a system. And that I think is important just as the enforcement that we are doing right now we sure against the very concerns -- Charlie raises on health. Yet governing spoke recently of the Democratic Convention lot of passion a lot of pride in your voice about what's been accomplished attempt -- hand shall have offered their own critique and criticism along. Hey if I stride -- step back from an anime and and take. But I hope as a neutral or at least a fair assessment. I forgot about 9798%. Of the residents of Massachusetts governor making us number one in the nation just write that should be -- point -- pride great thing but I also see this -- see out hospitals suing the state because promises that -- -- a broken BMC in Cambridge specifically. You put allegedly hatched the idea put in place a freeze which both ten -- when Charlie Baker described as a gimmick. The -- that papers herald and globe guest out last week released a series of internal emails that suggest there's a train wreck that securing because of what. Some people are describing as a campaign gimmick. You getting about two billion dollars a year or more from the federal government then you work. Two or three years ago need an emergency room utilization has not gone down this was one of the premises of health -- How do you describe it in such glowing terms when you have the all the wreckage around the. Well -- you know charges and not wreckage charges are opinions and I'm Chris well you're right 97 and a half percent of our residents have health insurance today. No they stay in America contestant and that is something we all ought to be proud that. That was a that's a reform. Crafted by Republican governor -- democratic United States senator senator. Eight democratic. Legislature and a broad coalition of people. In the healthcare industry business and advocates and so -- and that coalition has on the whole state together. To a justice we've gone along so really really a great news the next step. And the stepped it was and the order of the next step and I has agreed on by those by those framers is to deal with -- with costs. And -- and the recommendations from the commission. To deal with -- -- is around payment reform which is to move from your paying for the amount of health care to paying instead for the quality of the outcomes of those. That don't care and when those recommendations were delivered after a couple years a study we got them in that in the fall the very first thing that the year. That the industry said was please go slow. Take five years because this is a big change and we don't -- disrupt the industry. Too much will meanwhile small businesses in particular which represent 85% and you know this is something on which. Since studio which I think Tim and I really agree 85%. Of the business in this. Commonwealth are small fifty people or fewer. And -- then this is an economic emergency they can't wait five years and so what I said in February is look. Unless there's a better idea we're gonna use this procedural. Regulatory authority. As a bridge from here to there. And and cap. You know not a hard capita soft cap. On rates -- -- people could justify why unreasonable increases shouldn't be. I should be I permitted but he has really and they'll suggest that three -- is a rarity and financial troubles absolutely nothing and -- -- gonna follow that hasn't set up a domino Brit first of all that that that email is and he has from somebody was absolutely nothing to do with that with the development or the execution of this of this policy any issues around. Around the solvency of insurance. Predates. This policy that ceiling when -- -- let me also be you made him I mentioned about. Promises kept. To the hospital costs yes first of all the legislature is legislation. Health reform legislation is very clear that after three years -- special payments would end. They end it. And what we are having to do now to the point frankly similar to let. Both Charlie and to enhance and sit in the context of state government some of these providers some of these hospitals are also having to thinking new ways. About their operating model we're trying to work with him to do that. Please do yet Kelly Collins on -- governors with the gonna let me just say this WRQ were having -- okay hit her first of the season that gubernatorial debate. Now Governor Patrick is cheered and treasurer Kay hill and -- Charlie Baker there Republican candidate sorry to the dog assistant -- talking catch couple points -- wanna make out with the governor one only time for everyone in this and is a big issue. But two things that the governor mention all people are at the table when this law was -- small business was not at the table. Now it's bring brought into the table -- part of the problem small businesses had not had to seek. At this table and may have been squeezed more than anyone fault that the federal level in at the state level there's a tax credit in the federal legislation. That allows people to write off coverage of small businesses and less if human businesses. Meaning you can't you can't get that tax credit if you have. Family members in that business the other thing the governor said that I I disagree with fundamentally. Is that we had a reform first while we start with the highest percentage we started 92%. And nine between our 97 so. It's solid we came from 85 which some of these other states -- coming. But guessing I think that it disagreement -- governor wasn't here at the time so all due respect to him. It was Charlie the Republicans. Mitt Romney in a democratic legislature to put this together. But cost was not the driving force we're now gonna deal with -- we should always deal with cost first we do when he kind of reform because if we don't. Get the costs right as we see with the Big Dig as you see with health care. Then we can't fix anything. We're gonna have less access to health care if we have less insurance companies and we have less hostility with cost him do you think -- doctor for a Mass. General while the judges when you go for procedure. I think Mass. General in general over charges they get reimbursed hire based on the what do you insurance companies give -- they get more money and effort go to -- hospital. And there's no incentive for anyone. If it is everywhere and basically has a Cadillac plan -- most people have the Cadillac plant when they go to Mass. General to get routine treatment that will cost more. It will cost more and then that the and then the smaller community hospitals beginning seven cents or less on the dollar. Because they're taking calcium Mets consumers' choices governor you can direct those consumers to say you must go I'm not -- our relatives -- gonna incentivize them because that's the key you've got to get him to keep more of their money got to give them more choices and say if you choose that you can payless. We've got to give people more choices are catastrophic. Health insurance right now you have to buy a full coverage plan to qualify. Under you know the connector but model so we -- there's a challenger -- I think the key here is we need to give individuals consumers. More choices not the government all the choices that's the big difference in my plan. -- thank you. I'm excited years ago I started talking about the fact that nobody knew how much anything costs and health care nobody knew it. Medicaid -- Medicare pay fifty or 60% away at any of the private carriers pay for most services serve return your access services of private. We insured person you're basically plan to some extent for the short -- Medicare and Medicaid. And that there is huge variation in what. Providers get paid for services. You know the same service to the same person with the same outcome within twenty minutes -- building -- fortified different places can very impressed by 500%. So how do you structure it so I said from the -- the same for five years -- all this data ought to be public. And I've been saying -- for five years because I believe if you truly want a fix what's broken on the cost side and health care you have to start with public disclosure. Tim you'll never get to the point where people are positioned to actually. Use information whether their providers or employers -- patients or anybody else until there's publicly available data that people can look at and say yup that's good information that helps me understand priced out. What did you do when your health insurance executive -- you start posting and I want you don't wanna you don't have to wait what are -- do -- -- this -- -- you needed to wait for government to do because everybody needs to put all that data out there and -- are talking about it as -- did you have you taken some leadership you could lead the way -- I didn't -- on this issue I've been talking about this -- now -- five years -- I supported a series of initiatives dot com for state government -- -- a bunch of proposals worth. Jim Roosevelt and they all fell on deaf ears -- wearing government you're government governor are you right now you -- is now just got to know him in a series of proposals on this. There was desperate to see people pursue and people pursued. None of them and we're now at a situation for years later was second wherever you -- -- business ERS are gonna I'm gonna pursue anything because you just talking about it I mean that's that's leadership Charlie got to -- -- we know I know that I was providing leadership primary issue to the extent that I could. You guys who controlled the wheels of the machine where a better position I was actually execute on this and I and I have to say. That part of the reason small business only just like us have gone up over the course of the past few years. Is because we the state has not done a particularly good job of giving them the options that they need to purchase lower cost insurance plans and because the state hasn't done a particularly good job. Through the connector dealing. With what people call sort of the jumper and -- for phenomenon which is people buying insurance using the system. And then dropping their insurance which has been documented now for over a year to be something that small business and that's. So they're I don't know lot of criticism that her responses that it taught from the -- jumping in dumping -- that I hear from small businesses is that they get. They're new -- insurance their insurance premium ink increase and they can't afford it to 2433. 50% increases -- easily jump from one company to the next year after year -- -- from Tyler they can provide something. And -- and I I would mean a prison I think there. They're there is merit in some of the points of each is that both Tim and Charlie have. I have made I like the idea and very much support the idea of transparency letting people know what what the the actual cost of health care is but. Let's be clear if you pay if you pay a ten dollar co pay. When you get your service and MGH original hospital -- doesn't matter to most people what's behind that costs. It has to be some consequence for those for those guys you can -- the -- enormity of consumer -- -- actually and they actually is limited to limited network. We're which is I think that Tim was getting at is something that we have. We have proposed that will save the same time. I'm I'm just this perplexed as as I think Tim is. That. That there was no transparency were little transparency at Harvard pilgrim. Well you're in charge Charlie in fact what happened what you were there is you raise premiums a 150%. Over over ten year period and I. Listen I'm out talking to those small businesses you say you're talking about and the thing that they are most concerned about in terms of being able to start hiring again in getting. Back to responding to the increasing commercial activities these increases in. In. Double digit increase year over year in an opinion increases which is why. I believe and still believe we can't wait for five years and payment reform to be can't implement it we gotta have a bridge from here to there Obama. -- I can -- argue -- guises if you really wanna get people involved in the health insurance system if you wanna create the kinds of plans and you're talking about Tim in the you're talking about. The with regard to be giving people skin in the game and options and choices at all starts. With public disclosure around price and performance you can't expect somebody. To make your decision based on you know plan design and skin in the game and all the rest if they don't have the ability to collect. And Charlie -- trying to agree with you I'm just saying that -- is not enough because if all you do is give that transparency the only ones who benefit are the health insurance carriers who get a yet getting information around which they can they hardly hardly hardly -- who will defend that it will matter. When there is a difference in consequence -- for that consumer. Based on the choices resilient you know transparency rarely rarely -- they put -- last thing we're agreeing on those. But you can have transparency alone. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- And most people thought I was gonna go out of business news any news or get out the state helped save helped our let's do. Related consistency here on yup -- on this healthcare governing you thumb. Recently had a hip replacement of Mass. General I did. Milton high it was a -- about it tilt and hospitals -- like trial Thomas Amanda. Than hospitals less than two miles from the home Giuliani hospital less than three and if you decided to have. Do it on the Berkshire is because that's a nice push to -- -- I think it's either Berkshire polio Paulson deal loss fault they all offer orthopedic services yes -- considerably less prize. And you chose the Cadillac of got -- of one rule for UN a different rule from -- -- would you just made my point you just made my point that co pay and the and then deductible. He's the same for me no matter where I go so we find new. What was behind. Those charges and you listen if I knew and that's all I have just knowledge. It doesn't make any difference to -- consumers just aren't sure if you're there as well this is the question and -- -- -- are you then in favor of say a 5000 dollar co pay for those of us who opt to go to the great Dennis Burke at Mass. General. As opposed to some doctorate -- you have to throw apply got a of the plugin for. He's the greatest surgeon in the country as well as an open mind our audio guy he is a pretty good he's glad he's really got energy and he checked on me will laugh when I was a hospital but I had to I had the best of Imus thing. But no listen -- -- their whole host of of consequences just slight net. There -- gonna have to grapple with it for you to get don't grow with the Cox wait where is -- center what you are saying what I'm hearing is that consumers are gonna be told you're gonna pay through the nose if you choose. This place and you pay considerably less if you choose another place now Tom what I'm saying is that if we have transparency. Then you gotta give consumers some some choice a round of what that means to him. Otherwise you don't get any real change in the. -- -- and we're just the way I Arianna you have the heat if you give small businesses the choice if you choose this woman it play and you pay less -- exactly all right then deport individuals I I'd say give the consumer more choice. Like we allow them to shops -- made a point to -- the other -- it is these two types of surgery. The price has come dramatically down lay sick in plastic surgery W one of them -- So they've come down tremendously because people have to choose. In people pay and -- so so publicly available it you know well but are supporting as you can shop around the price had to remind our source market forces. Not government forces other way to solve them by dynamite idea of having a limited regular regard current charts -- the governor limited network. Plans -- he is is something we filed an emergency -- legislation so I added I think on this team and I mean. -- green glasses -- maybe maybe even Charlie and I let's give -- time blizzard. WRKO where you are talking to the candidates for governor and lead so start we Tim Cahill -- -- to leave soon tune -- to make another appointment. The the federal government is trying to kidnap the ability of states to control education by shifting to a national standards model. Now this is particularly unfortunate for us in Massachusetts which has amongst the highest standards in the country. How do you feel about weakening -- how do you feel about losing local control would you support what. -- Barack Obama's push. I would not I think we have the best system and governor do -- it deserves a lot of credit for this we have the best system public education system statewide I think in the nation we got the highest standards. And I think what we've proved and under Tom Finneran in the legislature back in the ninety's when Charlie -- sort of go well if you set -- in -- the students in the teachers and administrators were rising occasion. I'm not in favor of weakening MCAS I think we should strengthen it I mean we should at a US history portion to MCAS I think our students should know history here in Massachusetts in the country. Because if you don't know what I I I wouldn't be -- I would do nothing about what the president is trying to get us to do I don't think the national like health care. I don't think one size fits all we're leader here in Massachusetts and education both public and private education higher indicated twelfth. And I think we've worked hard we spent a lot of money. Foreign teachers on education aren't certification and all those kind of things. And take a step backwards to go to some national model that may work in Illinois it may work in in Washington DC. But it's not gonna keep us in the front we lose our advantage because education is one of our competitive advantages that we have here mistake we lose it if we water -- so I'm not in favor. Of the national model. Whether that teachers unions -- -- -- whether teachers want that I think that we have to keep pushing our students they rise syndication. Now Charlie you and take a swing at the united. -- completely agree with -- with -- and I want I was on the board of education when we put those standards in place and we created the frameworks and there's tremendous amount of pushing and shoving in response to that and I still believe it was the right thing to do. And I'm scared to death frankly for the kids in Massachusetts ruling here chatter and talk coming out of a board of education in the secretary of education in the governor's office. That we may change the way we do this and stop being the national leader look we are. We finish in the lowest ten across almost every single category you can think of in terms of the cost of everything in Massachusetts. From a competitive point of view the one place we -- There's an education and we should maintain we should do everything our power to maintain our position with regard to that because it's fundamental to our success is a state. I was brought -- high school a couple of weeks ago. Then Brockton high school has some of the best. MCAS scores in the state permits and urban school system. They graduated about 90% of the kids who start ninth grade there in 98% of the kids who graduate going to higher education. And they've basically said point blank to me that MCAS and their performance and -- ten years ago which was awful. Was the warnings from bell for them the alarm bells sounded and they worked over the court teachers administrators everybody over the course of the next decade. To dramatically improve what they expected from their kids and and and they got the performance there are seeking and I think the last thing we should do is walk away from that LA and I also think frankly that. We are following behind the number of other states and number other categories as well in terms of holding. They're using teacher evaluations and tying those two to student performance and creating a better link between student performance in teacher valuations. But I think there -- a lot of things. We should be doing to continue to drive this issue as hard as we possibly can because. Because it is in many respects. The great opportunity to giving disadvantaged did an opportunity for the future if you do good job of giving him a good that you Hemmer good education and it is in many ways one of our great. Sort of competitive advantages is -- state. Governor. First -- I think this may be one area where we agree and I -- of them the curiously. Clear up. Charlie's. Assertion that there's chatter coming out of the governor's office that we walk away from -- are high standards and very. Proud of our standards I'm proud of our leadership nationally so you're gonna resist the national standards and then not be onboard now I would have cinema city what I said the secretary of education at the national standards are at least. As. Ambitious is ours and we would support them. If they are not we won't for what that's where they -- and by the way will and by the way -- -- -- pull out it's the -- that complicated. That's why why we're about the sovereignty over that's that's why we love because the whole nation needs to raise it's standards we are not a sovereign nation. We are part of -- national community. And it's just as education is our calling card. To the whole world here in that in the commonwealth the nation needs to raise its -- standards so. What I said to the to the secretary and to the president when asked about it is that we as the standard leader. With support national standards provided they don't know that's. I this ultimate political dynamics is just 49 other studies we just finished -- -- Alito why would -- -- thing that's what I'm saying we're the we're the leader so we don't have do well we certainly not gonna step back. And and it's the reason by the way why we didn't win race for the task I disagree -- so now we're not racist tirade like we don't necessarily if I can finish Charlie. The reason we get we union. Raced to the top and the reason we were marked down from his because we were asked to as of as a condition. To sign on the standards no one has even seen. And we should -- is no way we're gonna do then why in the world. Would we jeopardize one of the signature elements of this this education system we were done dot I think 1520. -- points and that was the edge. There was yeah I mean we we lost we lost a bunch of points -- American governor in many of them had to do things are specific to Massachusetts beyond testing that was one of many elements and I think. We are losing -- a little bit on this stuff and -- a state we need to continue to be aggressive about pursuing reform. And pursuing. Closing the achievement gap in pursuing. Continued excellence because. There wasn't just about the testament we we -- who have what do we have we have we were down 67 points overall and the test was about ten -- a whole bunch of other things -- State's first. Well I -- I get it I gotta say you you were. -- points are great picture effects and I just I just wrong and we are. We have spent so much time and money and effort and thought. Assuring that our education system continues to move forward in the home -- market any organization successful organization is continuous improvement. We get the reform bill through the small sweeping and one billion in seventeen years and was all about trying to address. That achievement gap because for the seventeen years we've been on this path. Improving that the public schools and I think he -- dear Charlie when that wind and reform was done -- -- In the world they're using and kudos for setting us on this path. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- As another as another element. We put says science in place that we had that we had to stand -- -- country agreement. And one of the points in you can get in all these points -- -- -- what one of the problems I have is again it goes back to my original point if if we allow the federal government. With a carrot which is hundreds of millions of dollars. To move our stick around you know to make sure that we lower standards or do something that's not in the best instructional and we lose and we become dependent on them. Once they stop watching on that path. We lose and I don't think we just competing inside the states I -- competing as other countries I agree with the competing against Israel will convening in Europe we're competing in seizure. I finally found a common point of agreement an -- impose another one where we had talked about doing closing statements that this is gone so well we're running out of time. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Half hot hot hot hot hot I I'm not governor at some of the earlier responses given the budgetary challenges the structural deficit. He talked about having cut the the workforce. Even in an earlier that conversation we have in my show months months ago. You acknowledge that a bad practices paying for employees out of capital account yeah I'm looking at the most recent prospectus. -- secretary of day and if in the treasurer's -- people the capital well yeah I mean it it it's it's more than that. -- Jude of those seven new fresher as a governor about 151700. Employees on those accounts today 20009. Almost 900. The growth of 5000. Jobs of capital cost you acknowledged and in the in the early conversation a horrible fiscal practice to engage in should be cut down has not increased -- -- get the numbers just released on June -- say. This is this is astounding and it's I'm just wondering if there's an explanation yeah conference. Well the reason we have that we have added on the capital cows because capital program is an all time high. We have more road rail and bridge projects broadband expansion public and affordable housing. We're investing in a public college and university. I campuses we're building up this broken infrastructure which is creating jobs right now. But also economic value and quality of life out for a long long time and that's a part of our of eight. Recovery strategy we started before there was a stimulus bill and will be able to sustain. After the stimulus bill I completely agree with you that has a long term manner. Having employee and we talked about this before we did having and I employees on the capital county is not desirable. Moving those employees to the operating account. Annan is a very costly thing right now but it is something I think that we need to move to overtime. It's Charlie -- look I'm just my view on this is pretty simple which is. I've been -- confirming a year about the fact that we have not as a state got an arms around the budget. You know turn -- start when you plan for the worst budget accordingly and get the budget finds you well that's not what Geneva and -- dig a -- I'm sorry that's just not what you do with the Big -- look. I worked I worked on the Big Dig for. What I never actually worked on the Big Dig off the Big Dig lasted 24 years. Started in the early 1980s or I was barely out of college. That I spent four years is NF secretary at a point in time when. The big issue is what to do by a federal funding and we came up with a plan to deal with -- in the plan frankly -- exactly the same plan. From a structural point of view of the -- with the accelerated road and bridge engineers I don't think that's a bad plan to -- back to my point we have. Still a two billion dollar structural deficit we may have an 800 million dollar 700 million dollar problem in the but. It's it's gonna start in two weeks here in Massachusetts. And the big issue we're gonna faces a state going forward is how are we gonna get out of this fiscal jam that we've been in now for three years and I made very clear. That I have a plan to do this and I'm gonna continue to build on that pulling US for a billion dollars in. In savings and cuts I've I've proposed a billion amassed her experience as a 600 million. 600 million make chump change the bottom line here is whomever the next governor is is gonna have to be serious about. Going after reforms cutting state spending and getting out of this business who just pushing the problem often of the taxpayers. And under the cities and towns which is what we've been doing for the past couple years well no they won't -- Dana reforming our reform success and education and if we keep doing that because you know Brockton. Great school system great high school great success is talking about -- three or 400 teachers because. Of locally cuts and the fact that they don't have any flexibility with regard to what to do with their health insurance plans -- I was just gonna issuance of. And if there is fun and an immediate rollback on day one as you have proposed of the sales and and income and corporate tax and Broxton will be worse -- -- -- earlier might be let's be clear that that so so when we talk about about Stewart being state finances for thought you don't have to take my word for it. Take the word of the independent rating agencies who have said we have done. A very strong job any better job than most of the rest of the countries in the midst of the worst economy in living memory yes there are many more difficult decisions ahead. We are gonna have to think about I think fresh way something that I have wanted us to be thinking that is a body politic. For a long time which is what is it we want government to do and not do. And knocked it. And then what does that actually costs around. -- -- slam and I what is supposed smarter ways and and I need more will -- be amazing -- -- -- and -- -- -- -- the Clinton actually when -- the next securing -- just kick in the -- and we're still basically talking about a huge doses as far into the future you know Charlie I have a lot of respect they have for you but it that the notion that you lifts with your -- Fingerprints all over the Big -- financing plan. We talk to me out of that same thing here is exactly the same model year use different as we personal -- Vonage added I'm talking about -- then. We gonna excuse me we've got to wrap up Israel it's all right some one quick question for because you've been campaigning around -- Discussing the burden of trying to get your message out with the noise that he radio creates and he I was just curious reach. About us -- -- us sitting outside Canada -- -- got a thin so you really know -- you know what do you know what's out there on this notion that. That we have to agree on everything before we can work together on anything. Is part of what is so polarizing down in Washington and I think he's been creeping into our our politics and public discourse for a long time and I think we need to get past that. Because this as Charlie and TM and I have all acknowledged and your questions and gotten gotten do we get to -- issues in front of us and not off fiscal they're also values. -- retirement music radio. Heck SI don't like what that I you something like that you guys have been great SS Tim Tim Cahill who hasty -- we would like to continue to do that you know of only scratched the service and I'm not throw bouquets but -- handled yourself well. We've only begun to scratch the surface it is a two to three billion dollar structural deficit. Each of you -- some serious thing and some serious explaining to do to the rest of us. And with that there's. Any limitations on how does that where's the where you where's the music and heavily allied Colombo Obama I -- next Tuesday. We'll get intentionally done and I thought about Gary are taught how they both for having Charlie tiger thank you very much -- presented hale thank you live in here. Alright guys thanks so listeners for checking in thanks to the candidates also thanks to responses SP ally you know when it comes to life insurance to choice is always easy say savings bank like insurance. Is the no nonsense -- insurance company and you should visit SP allied dot com today weicker realtors is also a sponsor if you need more space. At -- they can relay call -- realtors or visit. -- -- dot com also brought to by the Massachusetts right to repair coalition gauge your can't get it fixed wing you want to.