Aug 22, 2018|
Jason Hawes & JV Johnson talk to author & historian Peter LEvenda about his series of novels that pick up on HP Lovecraft's work. Also, Peter discusses the controversy of the actual fate of Adolph Hitler after WW2.
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
I cannot be owned by scientific method. You're six. Send him tall and. Creature that's been seen my many little life you know. And de Ferran good morning mining boom Herron online inning and news features and yeah me. He lying then yeah real mania apple is lying game. It also shape shifting mentioned you. My experience it's an experience. A. Excuse analyst. And the east many years to earn between welcome. You radio with myself Jason cars it was awesome cheek each ounce so this forgive me if I'm a little lethargic. Tonight I just before we came on the show I was treated to a couple slices of delicious pepperoni pizza. And it was this thing I expected but it was something we showed up in my porch one of our listeners actually had a pizza delivered to my house while. That's that's that's neat it's got a cool because last night in the chat I had said boy I really wanna have a pizza. And one of urban listeners daisy took that to heart and a pizza showed up my front the front door I was really really shock this summer try this okay it was just have a separately a lot of our I was just. Gonna try this oh. I really wanna million dollars. Not to solicit what happens when you get on that to be really awesome thank you for dogs usually only one. 500000. And you wanna. Get 5000 here but I don't share with you my buddy and Steussie you know that they were all going to be on reality radio everybody and as stories and javy and we gets at least agree showed. We do this is going to be very very exciting we kind of took eight. Last minute says detour. We have had Peter defendants scheduled to come under the program for awhile now. And the original topic of conversation which will still be part of tonight's discussion was his new novel called done which. Which is the second volume in a trilogy that began with C love Kraft code in this is these are books that are inspired by HP love crafts or work. On but then I got it in the in the Reza is doing some research from what I saw that Peter also wrote a book called rat line. And rat line is a book that outlines. How Hitler may have actually escaped Nazi Germany at the end of World War II. That you and I've talked about many many this is a topic that you and I have a great interest and and the firm believer yet firm believer that he did well there's a lot of really compelling evidence but the interesting thing about Peter's book is that he takes a bit of a departure most of what you've seen and heard particularly in things like. History channel's. The punching Hitler. Is that he he means meaning you know fielder went to South America. And there's a lot of evidence sport veteran talent to even government a government documents that talk about him being. Yes and the difference here is that Peter has a different theory. Peter yeah has evidence that supports that he went somewhere in America say who where and I'm not gonna say with the evidence as yet will let Peter told the story but it's very very compelling. So please him interest and should get so hey if you haven't yet head over to FaceBook dot com slash beyond reality deal to FaceBook page forest and had to be under reality radio dot com. We can find all the stations to air across country atlas is costly being done outdated and attitudes check it often. He also download the free Smartphone apps which was a listen life cash past shows join him in check more on the ago. Or any night relying just listener from the website click and listen lifetime in the upper right hand corner of the web site. And connection or online Jeremy can handle the Greek community people all listen to the show. The great community people one of them semi pizza which is really awesome. Tomorrow and we've got a double guests for you we've got a guest in each hour the first hour we've got David braced joining us he's a comedian an internal polls show most and that's an interesting combination. He has a podcast called comedians talking about big foot. He also has another podcast called the monstrosity podcast were comedians and celebrities are brought together to discuss paranormal subjects with experts like UFO's big puts in big source assuming it focuses. And I know this and I don't I don't write epic it dozens of sauces circulates stock to a David the first. Or tomorrow night and then the second hour will be talking with John tight Kendall. Author internal mole encrypted investigator who will be discussing his new book squelch files. Which made on number one new release on Amazon and will be getting into his background and his history and so much more. Yeah we've got a great week of shows residents have bumpers and it would Steve Asher he's an author and researcher. He's got a couple of books out of we'll talk about including haunt teens of the Kentucky State penitentiary. And hall meetings of the western lunatic asylum. Perfect stuff Russia itself so. So what game would get a dual weaken and of course I was set to attend her spare con. Africa that was it it was brutally. Were totally hot on Saturday in this particular event to actually do outside in the four yard of Pat Hurst asylum which is a nice beautiful surroundings but it was. So hot and so human near Philadelphia. That. He was quite uncomfortable but there were still a lot of people I guess it is safe go to a lot of friends and fans and it was a really great time. And yes I had an an awesome time there so it was good we can we tons of spent. We have totally rained out here with territory to kids to Washington County Ferran. And there was only a 10% chance arraignment but that turned into pretty much a 100% as the rain for two and a half hours nonstop. I mean huge huge amount. So there's there's. You know we we he's saying this stuff given the fact the West Coast is under such horrible conditions with a fires in the crowd he's very while. And we just keep getting dumped on in the east in on the northeast here's just seems to be known every there's moss and everything right now outside it is everything is covered in moss. Yeah a little a little thing you might not really so so it's true we talk and some soft with love Kraft. Yesterday it was his 120 respect while. So any strike me he was from Providence, Rhode Island so it's it's basic touch if he's a very very interesting character he's one of these guys that his work was never even considered. Acceptable. While he was a life. And somehow all after the fact and I don't really know the story but somehow after the fact. He. Summon right found his work inserted to rediscover it and re introduced it to people and became. Bit of a Holtz. News sensation and there's been movies made and are based on his work in. You know a number obviously a lot of books and obviously things like Peter will bend is a trilogy which is based on love love crest work. In music he was and asked extremely well strange individual and also adults serious anxiety disorders and he died I think to a 46 years old. I think to a yeah. L announced it vessel as soon as this and in very strikingly similar to a grown impose life and you know that they Powe wasn't appreciated during his time either. Died young. So some haunting similarities there. And a hallway just in case this radio thing doesn't work off units when it should note that I'm Janet airlines still. I don't know where no hole to you for I don't need you know Janet airlines and Hulu only took what the one that the clustering system one that is current and her parents so pilots are one and for the secretive and Janet airlines to fly to area 51. If you're into UFO's. I mean that's a great job opportunity if you think about it. But Janet airlines the unofficial name of the class played fleet. For the united states air force is looking for pilots to join their secretive ranks at McCarron international airport in Las Vegas. As the planes which don't carry any company logos. They're created weight with horizontal red bands alongside transport military Contra thing contract employees to these first there's. Am sorry and restricted sites including the infamous area 51 in the Torah book test range in the phone. So there referred to as Janet because that's a call science when eaten use when they're being when a flying over civilian airspace to leave to stand for just another non existent terminal. Oh. Founded in 1972 sound. And they say that the fleet consists. Six Boeing 737. And 600 as well as five smaller executive Turbo for. I lost asking this amended has. The openings for flight attendants to I don't I can't fly planes and a Santa Carroll replied that's nice to see you lake serving the drinks that's a young kids he didn't want to one from he had watched you time for me when I was a waiter once for a summer and I spilled more drinks on people then I carried it. Or admit to so I'm not very good doing that. Cheese on that note or gonna take a quick break a lot more to come elicit much. This in the dvd on oil and radio. It's action right down the phone number to join our conversation later it's a 446877669. Our guest tonight we've had on the program before. Peter look vendor is an author and historian that you should sum by his weds website which is just his name Peter love and that dot com. And his new book out it's actually the second in who have trilogy it's the second volume it's called done which of follows the love Kraft told which. We had Peter on talking about the last amuse on the program Peter welcome back to beyond real radio great to have you here. Thank you very much great to be here and excrement on. So this the book on which is the second in York truly G that kind of draw some inspiration from look HP love crafts work. The first book was to love crest code. Introduce us to what the trilogy is about so before we can start talking about the second book which is done much. Sure. It's the story of professor Gregory Angel. Who's a professor of religion and religious studies at Columbia University he's a descendant. Of Georgia angels who is introduced in the called Katula love Kraft. George Angel has. I'm documents. Concerning that the young consume little cult. He's asked to sort of give his opinions about it in mass story and then a lot of weird things happen there's a student from. Rhode Island School of Design. Who is involved in making a sculpture that he sees in his dreams and has the same image. Of Katula that east that the professor sees another place and so he knows something strange is going on. And eventually though Georgia Angel has murdered on the docks in Providence. And the this is his document goes missing and all that so my story sort of picks up you know years later. One of his idea sentences greater financial news from the Angel family. On the Angel family was actually a very well known very prominent family in Providence in real life. I love Kraft was basing his story on people and a family that actually exist existed there. And had a tremendous influence on Brown University. And the academic life in. In Providence and in Massachusetts there're a lot of crossover between the angels and the weight and other other people that sort of creep in to look crafts stories. So my guy is Gregory Angel and he was a religious studies professor. Omni who's one of his relatives died on 9/11. And actually this is also true David Angell. A famous and television producer from shows like. Frazier. For instance and wings and of course cheers those three shows he was a producer on a writer on that. He died on 9/11 but the plane that he was on from Boston. Crash into the north tower so I use that as the basis for this guy this. Invented character Gregory Angelo. Who's related to all the angels. And it feels motivated now to do some thing and he speaks the two languages of the Middle East. So he's brought by an intelligence agency to help them. Go into the Middle East and find a book that everybody seems to be talking about. And which seems to be so crucial to maybe I'm an uprising involving al-Qaeda in other kinds of terrorist groups so it is brought out he's he's because of for a few missions ahead of time. Just hoping after 9/11. I embedded with the troops but he sees something. In Mosul in Northern Iraq which totally blows him away he sees a massacre. Of people called the is CD. And when that happens he kind of loses his faith in god and religion and everything else and doesn't wanna be bothered isn't even know who he is anymore. And that's when he's tapped by this mysterious. Intelligence group operating out of the National Security Agency. In Fort Meade a shadowy organization that sends him out back again reluctantly. Really against his will to go out into Iraq. And to find this book that everybody seems to be talking about and that's the love Kraft code that's how it all starts. So we follow Gregory angels through. All of these countries through Central Asia all the way into Nepal. Into the Himalayas where he has a confrontation with the cult that has seized this book and is using it to summon. Dark horse. And we leave him at the end of the love Kraft code. The whole going to no spoiler alert here but eventually does get it get its hands on this book and sort of disappears and now everybody's looking forum. And they've done it the book done which picks up from that point. And it starts off with alien abduction. In the very first opening scenes there's an alien abduction scenario. And talk about genetics and genetic testing. And who's the father of this woman's children in Providence. And then it goes on from there becomes really insane after those first few gracious he Tom's really insect eye on the Internet. Goals are generally rational to begin to think. What all the as a person I live in Rhode Island myself and as a as a person from Rhode Island of course HP lost craft is a a very important figures in Providence and and so forth. And but the hold the dawn which horror was based on a fictional town in Massachusetts school which correct. That's correct. So minutes are new drugs are all. It goes on from there coming to the book done which is based on the done much or so the dawn which horror if you go back and re read it. With the with the sort of a jaundiced eye you'll see that really that much worse about a lot of very strange. Things it's not just the sort of horror story there's a lot more to it than that there's really the the the theme of incest. And and using children ritual sacrifice and ritual goes ceremonial magical rituals is really up front and center in the done much more on and it's even hinted love Kraft also forest a hint that this is was what this is all about. In the story itself he has all the villagers whispering. Putted old man weekly you know and his daughter suddenly have a child in what's that all about so. At all happened during a magical rituals so done which is about those themes that's about alien abduction is about. Ritual magic it's and you know the magic involving. Children which is a very sensitive topic and I'm trying to approach should in this era where everybody's talking about things like that to try to. Bring some understanding to what that it would really be like. If this was you don't actually part of the ritual magic. Agenda or formula Harvey 100. We're talking with that Peter Lowe's and author of the book done which which is the second volume any trilogy. First book is called the love Kraft code his website is Peter livid that dot com and we're gonna continue the conversation right after the break. In the phone number and for calling him later ruled the 44687766. Night until three to 446877669. Elicited Jason GDP on an island. This person's an author and historian what are we talking about his book rat line a little bit later in the program. Which is Peter's investigation and and to present her presentation of some very very compelling evidence Adolf Hitler did not. Commit suicide in the bunker in the late days of World War II in Berlin. That topic that you and I've talked about many many time we have and there are some competing ideas as to where he may have ended up if he did in fact escaped Germany. And we're gonna talk about that a little bit labor right now we're talking about done which. Done which is Peter's second book the second volume of the trilogy the began with a love Kraft code. And Deb Peter askew about about love Kraft himself. We were speaking in the introduction of the program tonight. He wasn't appreciated in his time and frequently find that there are authors I think Edgar Allan Poe was another one didn't really. Receive the recognition that he may have deserved while he was alive and it all kind of happened after. They left us with with love Kraft what was it about his work that that was a life cycle of. Well it wasn't really mainstream I mean it wasn't the kind of it kind of writing that would appeal to a broad section of of humanity. And it it appeal to a certain type of personal computer to an appeal to two young men for the most part those who would today and in this day and aging and be reading you know Marvel Comics or something or back in the thirties and forties may be weird tales and things like that ash it was sort of in that that genre of horror fiction which appealed to you know smaller segment of the population at the time and now it's sort of a bigger business but in those days I think it was. Kind of considered almost tabloid or pulp fiction and they really didn't and it wasn't didn't rise the level of literature. You know in the in the I in the eyes of literary critics and people like that it was like it was kind of a specialty and of course loves crafts. Prose is rather purple and it takes a little getting used to. You EP favors archaic. Words and archaic combinations and we're spellings of words and things so it's very idiosyncratic. So you have to kind of get on board with that. In the last thirty years or so there's been really. A rediscovered it looked crept even Joyce Carol Oates. You know wrote an anthology I mean her or publish an anthology of love crafts work with her own introduction to it so it started to take on more of a mainstream. Like Lou look cool we've overlooked look at there's is there's this gem that's the jewel of American literature that. For whatever reason back in the in the twenty sweeter that we really didn't pay much attention to and of course he was being published in. Very fringe publications as well so it didn't really breach. Wider audience. Not for a long time there it seemed that it was mortgages for a leg off tight crowd and I'm not now it's really opened up to to pretty much everybody Alter. Yeah and it's been. Reinterpret at a lot of also Chris I'm guilty of that as well bush a lot of movie. Producers and directors have kind of pre interpreted love Kraft should have been more modern times. A lot of the stuff that you see illegal alien vs predator for instance things like that have a heavy love crafty and flavor you know going down into the Antarctic and you know finding this vast subterranean. Temple and these alien beings in there that's really right out of love Kraft so you have that that idea that there are these alien. Beings that we're trying to get back into the earth and I think it's three cycled into. Eric Fontana can insurance with the guts you know and Zacharias section and his books on -- this Americans bubble own hands and no aliens coming down on trying to do something on the earth manipulate humans or something that was laughter after that that was his messier that was his his. That was his environment really. A lot of people will read. His worker who work of other authors and not many then decide to write something that's inspired by those works what may June. Write your trilogy. As inspired by love Kraft. I just found. That there was a lot in looked craft that bared looking at again I felt a lot of weird. Synchronicity sent and coincidences. Between look trucks work for example and some writings by Alastair Crowley. The weird thing about love Kraft and I know I've said this before but it's something that really stands out is that love Kraft is very specific. About month day year in his stories. I mean there's something about look craft that he feels compelled to say on this day month and year this is what happened. And so I have like a timeline to work with. So with that time and I go back and I realized that at one point. Com love Kraft is writing about a weird ritual that takes place on November 1 1907. Or October 31 and a 2 November 1 1907. In the values you know an all in a Louisiana outside of New Orleans. And that date ring a bell and I looked over it looked craft so writings and sure enough on that very same month stay in Europe to over 31. In 1907. Crowley is actually in the process of writing what equaled later would call it holy books and these are sort of almost stream of consciousness throws. With a lot of illusions to black monolith some black Basil you know temples and weird. Eldridge things and and Lecrone is actually writing this on that very day in 1907. And then looked crest puts the call of could soon lose first major ritual. In New Orleans in October to October 31 1907. And I thought well that's weird because the writing is so similar. And the idea of these rituals are so similar that it appeared as though one was talking to the other. And we know now that left trap may have had you know some fleeting familiarity with the name of Alastair Crowley. But he certainly had read these books. And he would not have known about all the details and you know the lack Unita rebels are Crowley's work and when he wrote this and when he did that and you know all this other stuff so that was compelling to me it looked like there was something going on here that there was some sort of you know avatar or some sort of maybe. Kind of strange connection between these two writers because they're both writing about. Weird states they're writing about rituals are writing about. Contact with non human entities and all of this you know. Fell together forming and I thought well there's something going on there that was one. Impetus for the books the other one was the fact that we're now in the midst of a lot of news and a lot of songs about the Middle East. When the mad Arabs are really mad Arabs and a picture here really mad competitor really Arab and so that matter about a love trust writing now is taken on this this this form it's in actuality. And you have you know you have this tremendous turmoil out there and yet people tend to think that it's a monolithic culture which is far from the truth. They think that for instance Islam as the only religion out there which is far from the truth and that its monolithic. Which is also not true and I wanted to show some of that I wanted to show all the different kinds of cults and religions that exist out there next to each other cheek by Joseph all these really weird little groups that you know somehow manage to co exist under those circumstances. So the look trapped co the first novel takes you through that and it all the groups that I mentioned on our real. You know they're factual but there's a heavy dose of a fact and I would say almost revelation and look craft code about real. Groups of people and what they really believed and their relationships with their neighbors the is ED being you know foremost among them bush. Other groups to Michael Hough and a lot of welders and Zorro Austrians and in Iran and India and these two groups in on the border between Afghanistan. And Pakistan the coach theory. So there's a lot of really weird religious. Groups out there in that part of the world and people don't realize that I wanted to really focus on that and give an idea of the context for what love Kraft was thinking about when he. Came up with Abdul how served on the matter Arab and all that. You Europe. Books have been compared favorably I might add to the Da Vinci code we juice and save that so folks who. Likes that type of intrigue and that typo of mystery. Are gonna find some of that in in this trilogy. They will build or actually. Find it but not in the Da Vinci code sense of christianity in the holy Grail and all of that it's it's really focused more on the non Christian. Not almost non Abraham religions so we're talking about you know the weird cults it existed in the Middle East but also. When you get into done which we're talking about Asian. Groups as well and Asian interpretations of Islam or buddhism or Hinduism and all lavish and it's all real as I say they might my books in this case these three this trilogy. Is like a Roman a clef it's it's it's a novel that has done a lot of Easter eggs and a a lot of references to people places and think some of them were overt. And others are sort of slow play fully concealed because I'm talking about maybe living people or or actual groups that exist today but. Astute readers picked that up pretty quickly and they have some people have been writing reviews and no picking up on the illusions so it it's like a division Coble with things actually happening today. People places and things are being mentioned that are actual. And I pick that up from left craft you know using months days and years and I'm really drawing a very closely parallel to things that actually were taking place. Well on those times out on that timeline represented in the novels. The third book I believe is coming up pretty soon as well right and you this this when you're done which come out. Came out clearly earlier this year earlier this year and in the third in the spring is coming on the phone is that right. Not come out probably in the spring in his testimony unfinished has to be finished. As it is not pretty ambitious. Yeah notably in the spring. 2019 and I believe that's how we're scheduling it now watch and it's going to be called story was to. And that's gonna bring all of this to a two ahead and bring all in the various threads together. That's going to be based loosely on the shunned house and Alter the dark so all of those like the idea of a church. That had to be moved out of Providence and then down to New Orleans is the is the the framework for star it was in the third novel. We're gonna go to break here in just a minute and when we come back I wanna change a topic answer talking the good about your book rat line before I do work and folks get a hold of right now the first two. Books to love Kraft code in done which of the trilogy. Certainly can get them on Amazon they've been there and in a Barnes & Noble their web sites are still. You can get it from there as well all the usual suspects great. Our our guest tonight is Peter look and a an alternate story and we're talking embodies. So I can. It's their songs and media very very. For her way to changer topic came to begin our discussion about Adolf Hitler. Of course the leader of Nazi Germany a man responsible for some unspeakable horrors. And our guest tonight is Peter look vendetta he's an author and historian and Peter wrote a book called rat line Peter I think that you released that book in 2012 is that correct. That sounds about right yeah yeah and and let's start because Ralph line is an examination of what actually happened to Adolf Hitler. Following a ball in the last days of World War II the official story is that. He Oro was any way that he committed suicide. With Ava Braun and his body in her body were thrown into a little pit outside the entrance to the bunker and burned with the gasoline. And the Soviets found those charred remains when they captured Berlin. We have about five minutes in this segment let's take those minutes and kind of recount that official story and where some of the holes in that story started to pop up. Sure well the the the official story is that on April 30 1945. Hitler committed suicide. Hitler and they have LeBron both committed suicide. Just propaganda minister Josef Goebbels and his entire family committed suicide. And in general Krebs who also committed suicide. And their little dog too. One who the girl of the of the girl's dog was also killed so all of these people are. Now dead they've committed suicide the problem with these story. Is that we don't know exactly who was shot and who took does the cyanide a between. Hitler and they have a bronze there's conflicting stories even among the people in the bunker. As to what actually happened to the two of them but at any rate according to the story all of these bodies were taken outside. And the two lead the guards at the need to secure bunker were told to pour gasoline and cremate the bodies. Well it's really really hard to cremate. Human remains with just to Canada petrol gasoline. That you Jeter really high flame you need an enclosed area eating basically a crematorium. In order to do this right and it's kind of us accordingly ironic that the Nazis who create its own the most famous crematory in the world. Could not actually. Incinerate Hitler and his wife but it any right so these bodies are thrown into a pit. The Soviets and to Berlin from the outside and Soviet agents. From us marsh which is there counterintelligence. Military counterintelligence. Find the bodies. Did the mob claim they found Hitler and it was bodies as well as that herbal spam land crabs in the dog and they love them all into a ban. And this is where the Odyssey starts because. According to what we knew at that time. The bodies have been discovered they had been cremated. And and taken away. And the problem is that stalling kept saying he didn't believe Hitler was dead. And Stalin didn't know when his own people has. Your take on the bodies then who who would now and so the rumors started to go all around the world that Hitler. Had survived. Now did he shoot himself did you take cyanide duty to both putted even indicted he shooter to give her cyanide all of these stories. We have so many conflicting stories from the people in the bunker that we really don't know what happened. And then later. The Soviets had prisoners German prisoners from the bunker that they captured. And they're getting all different kinds of stories from them. And the British are getting different stories from their prisoners. And then people like auto scores Sany. I Hitler's favorite commando the guy who rescued Mussolini from the top of that mountain. Using his paratroopers scores zany. When he was captured in Austria. Claim that Hitler must still be alive he was sure that Hitler had escaped alive. Hunt a Reich. Which was Hitler's favorite. The pilot. Female a woman pilot who was just a daredevil. Oh with an airplane flew into Berlin in the last days. And try to convince Hitler to fly out with her. She was going to fly him to someplace safe and for some reason he said no but they talk a lot about. Their last stand that they would make near Salzburg. On a ranch flew out like the day before April 30. And then she was captured in in Austria by the authorities and she told the same story she said Hitler no way committed suicide. He was on his way out he was going somewhere. So all of these stories started to spread around and nobody knew what the troops Willis. Until just a couple of years ago we begin to discover that there's actually no. Forensic evidence to show that Hitler died in the bunker. Well and I and I know that the even ran and the university Connecticut and Morgan until this ran tests Allen got his skull and came back as a female forty or under. Yep that's exactly right in fact I know these archaeologists to perform those tests Nicholas on Tony. And I contacted him about this when the story broke he he would actually examined the school in Moscow. Once the Russians said they had a skull with a bullet hole and well you know guerrilla schools a bullet hole in the so Munich and anybody or are they said this has to the other because he shot himself. Hum so it was kind of ridiculous in the he took a piece of that back with them at a tested and no it was not. Hitler's goal by any stretch of the imagination. And the Russians themselves published. There there are story of what they did to these bodies and it's ridiculous I mean it's actually ridiculously settler read this thing I thought this is your official account you couldn't. Why analyst just a little better than this yeah. It's Sherry you're right. As they also and then they try to claim that they had more evidence and we'll get into have been talking about jawbone fragments and and stuff like that which proved it was Taylor and but a lot more to come RAs so we're gonna take a quick break and will be really getting into this you listen to Jason javy and beyond our own. So Jason. Honestly it was awesome GD Jones. I've got some good news and some bad news by the way we will bring our guest Peter Levine to beckon in just a moment here but news reports have indicated that tests on mosquitoes on Long Island specifically. And fish have turned up more. Instances of West Nile Virus and other harmful viruses to humans than ever before these numbers are getting out of control. And they're becoming dangerous and they're highly recommending that people do as many things they can. To cut down on the mosquito population including things like him making sure there's no standing water. Are around your home you know some people don't realize if they leave like or even like a garbage can top upside down and collect some water it becomes a breeding ground for mosquitoes you'll look at those things as heals all things swim around the as a mosquito larva. Miscue I'm telling an aero X Hamilton Ben antics mayor of the worst in the sixth and tics or doing the same thing but here's the good news. Scientists have actually developed a way he and they think it's going to be very very effective in their testing and now in Brazil they've created in the laboratory sterile male. Mosquitoes. And they're releasing these mosquitoes into the wild using drones this is the key factors that they can send these drones over swampy areas where these mosquitoes breed. They dump out these sterile mosquitos the they meet with the female mosquitoes but clearly because they're sterile nothing happens but it basically pushes out the sterile males. And the mosquito population gets cut down without the use of any chemicals or any you know. Artificial means. That is so I mean I don't see any positive. Thank for mosquitoes mosquitoes are the leading cause pretty much deaths throughout the world yet they there are good disease carriers for short. This technique they're saying they have stated it's not some we need is 21 time you've got to do it over and over again but then again if you were sprayed with pesticides you just do the same thing. So they're there try this they say they have to release about ten of these sterile male mosquitoes for everyone that is actually in the wild for this to be effective so. Maybe this is a way that this'll help the help solve some on this. And I don't know about you but I've noticed mosquitoes that they are more aggressive than ever over the last ten years I just didn't know we got this one that it's been showing up here at some. Asian tiger mosquito or whatever. But it's said to be highly aggressive and you know when I guess how many times squad that it just keeps coming now I just assumed I was just sweeter than I have been in years and that's when they coming after me a little more I don't know that's my possibility but I think it was my shoes he mosquitoes are springer guest back. To the program people who vendors and author and historian he's written many books. About many different things including the book we're talking about earlier done which which is the second in his trilogy and assertive with the love Kraft code. In the book we're talking about now now rat line which is an investigation to look into what actually happened it off tiller. Peter before winter break you were telling us what quote unquote the official story was the Soviets captured Berlin. Some Soviet personnel enter the compound where the entrance to Hitler's bunker is. And he say they find these bodies that were partially cremated. And partially probably isn't even the right way to describe it. Where these bodies pointed out to them by anybody did they stumble upon them and what made them convinced or at least what made them think. That these were the bodies of Hitler and some of his henchmen and their families. Well actually the disease the identification of Hitler and Ava in particular. Was done through. Believe it or not through dentures. Both of the corpses had been fitted with new dentures brand new sets of dentures both the male and the female courts. And even the Soviets pointed out that the dentures did not fit properly into the schools but because the dentures matched. Drawings that were given to them or made for them by a dental technician and captured in Berlin. Who drew them from memory there were no actual documents about the dangers each teacher or these from memory in a match moralist that ventures they had. Four. Hitler and Ava so therefore they assume that the two bodies they had word Hitler and it LeBron. On the problem was the dental technician to hold the Russians that he had made two sets. Of dentures for each person two sets for Hitler two sets for Ava and he did this in April of 1945. Now that doesn't make any sense at all none. When you're planning when the boom when the country is falling apart and you're actually considering suicide. You gonna go in order to sets of identical dentures both for you and for ever Bronx. Why two sets you know on so obviously. They needed dentures Hitler had horrible Tito thinking only has three actual teeth in his head. By that time April 44. And April was in better shape but it and erect. He has these two sets of dentures made and those records evidently existed. So two sets of dentures are made right at the last moment righteous before early and falls. And once that is found in these two bodies the other set has never been recovered. This egregiously obvious conclusion that there was like this insurance scam thing inning developed right you know you make these fake dentures a criminal courts and wall that must be Hitler and because those are is dentures. Hum and that seems to have been the plot but of course we don't have proof of this because we don't have the bodies. And what happened is the at the Russians took the bodies all the bodies and good including girl's family is like 78 people there and and this general Krebs in the dog and they take all these bodies but the minute man. And they drive them out of Berlin. And now the Odyssey starts in this is according to the Soviets own. Publication on this which came out a few years ago. They have the bodies in the van they stop somewhere in the woods and they bury the bodies. Then they come back a little later like a day or two later they take up the bodies put them back in the van drive them someplace else bury them again. This goes on two or three more times. Finally they get to the sound of not to work which will be now in east Germany and and there's going to be KGB headquarters there. And eight KGB officer of some kind and there's a parking lot they'd bury the bodies again for the final time. In this parking lot painted over and that's the final resting place until 1970. Of Hitler and have a broad. So the question remains if that's the Russians official story of what they did to the bodies. Where that skull in Moscow come from and so. In 1970. On orders of Yuri Andropov who at that point as head of the KGB. The the the KGB goes to mount aboard to that city they dig up the bodies again. This isn't 1970 now. Mrs. you know par after 1945 and they take them down to a river and they burn the bodies. Once again they really cremate the bloody. Shoe and throw the ashes into the river. And then that's the end of the story according to lift the official publication by the Russians this is what happened. Now the story about. Hitler and you know Hitler survival and the bodies and all the rest of it and driving them around all all of that was known. As operation miffed. Yeah and in the end in the KGB Erica sets operation miss me right away. Like I say. July just a little better it'll make us all feel better but they had to lie outrageous things they call this thing operation. But the funny thing is the British. You know in 1945 as the Russians are driving around with these suppose the bodies of Hitler and the British now. Have to come up with a story that proves Hitler is actually dead because they don't want people you know thinking at Bristol much they don't want there to be determined to. Run a some sort of a back you know channel kind of operation in Europe or wherever is going to be here's a bit don't want people looking for and so basically they have to prove Hitler is dead. So everybody can get on with their lives. And so they tell this historian Hugh Trevor roper you know go out there you have three months. You know find us that the evidence. That Hitler died in the bunker that Hitler is dead he's not coming back you got three months to do this we know you don't speak German and you don't have access to the prisoners that the Soviets have you probably won't have access to the prisoners the American. You only have access to hours talk to them put together the story and by the way you know the project and really operation name. Where this operation is operation nursery. So now you've got nursery and myth you know I mean come on you know so Trevor Oprah goes and talks to a lot of people and Trevor roper himself. Says eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable areas. And he's getting stories that don't match from everybody everybody's telling a different story a shot rang out you know Hitler shot himself no Hitler took cyanide no Hitler and affable took cyanide no Hitler shot they have no it was shot Hitler know somebody came into the room and shot both look I mean everybody had a different story. And all of these prisoners of course are mostly SS. So what possible motivation what they have to lie about anything. So now you've got all these stories coming there you go all the stories that are the Soviets are being told by their prisoners who changed their stories every every ten minutes depending on how they're being tortured. And solely story nothing matches but you know Hugh Trevor -- being the 8 AM I six officer that he is. Puts it all together and creates a story and says yes Hitler died in the bunker we have the evidence because so and so told. And that was it that was supposed to settle everybody's you know hatched progress but there was no forensic evidence nobody. Had a shred of evidence that Hitler survived in fact they found Hitler doubles we've come to them. One of them was dead. The other Soviets found this guy they fought was still there had a photograph taken with him later turned out to have been one of Hitler's doubles. And they found another double living quietly in and other towns and where so they know that Hitler had doubles already. So who is in the decrypt it and in the grave outside of the bunker note when nobody knows because we don't have we don't have those bodies we have no evidence and longer. On a lot of people believe it to be. Pretty much innocent doubles that weren't there were murdered in Russian put their but there's. Also the FBI had documents. Talking about how they believed that it. Had escaped. And animated to Argentina and so forth and so are we were looking into it I mean our government was looking into it even while they were. Passing this this information as if he was he was dead. Eisenhower didn't believe that Hitler died for instance in the beginning he was convinced that Hitler had escaped. Not everybody was talking about this. And you know there's there's an interesting little. Bit of information be the OSS during the war which is a forerunner of the C church they had on a psychological profile. Of troop or were they had also develop some kind of propaganda stuff. About Hitler and and predicting what he would do and they're predicting you know some sort of got a dollar and kind of you know self immolation thing at the and a sure they romanticize this up as well and so of the story was already there. The story had been created. Even before the end of the war. So they were looking at that kind of of you know Hitler killing himself and then dying on a funeral pyre they had already figured this out like a couple of years before the under the march it's very mysterious whole that came together. And I would never. Ever have believed that Hitler had survived the war had it not been. Worthy events that I became involved with in in 20092010. Where the whole thing just came together. Our it was so we're gonna do is gonna take a break and when we come back we're gonna open that discussion we could spend the whole show just talking about the official version of what was said to have happen to Hitler. But we don't have time to do that because we need to get to part B of this story which will do after the break. Our guesses below vanda author and historian and we're gonna take quick break a lot more to come to listen Jason GDP on our earlier radio back after this. We're not talking about his book rat line I believe. Peter actually you've followed up rat line was resume was in another Booker and a revised edition of the book. No another book it's called Hitler legacy they came out in 2014. And that takes everything that I learned and Brett line plus a lot of additional information. That came to me because of rat line people suddenly started. Contacting me people who knew more about the story had additional documents. So they did they enable each really go into the story and much more depth. We have about just the lesson four minutes in this segment tell us what happened that started to turn. Your head in the direction of what do you now believe actually happened Hitler. Well I was in Indonesia of all places I was spending three months there at a university I was getting my ex. Master's degree in religious studies and it involved a semester there was taking in Indonesia when I was there. People started telling me this outrageous story it's seemed to me that to Hitler had you know escaped after the war and had gone to Indonesia. Global places to a remote island. You know way to the east of of Java east east of a volley all the way out there. Right around the area where the Komodo dragons come from and that Hitler and gone there with they have LeBron. And had lived their as a doctor and then had died in 1970. And my reaction was yeah right sure of course. And you know of course I didn't believe a word that a man's son elect something totally outrageous. But then at that same time in 2009. Dan. Nick not Tony came out with this story and and he was on television showing. Got to the skull leave the Russians had was not Hitler's skull so there wasn't any evidence that Hitler actually died in the bunker and I'm thinking. We'll wait and another look at this a bit more closely. And the story in Indonesia came up did with documents with with the small booklet was published that had photographs of this guy who supposedly was Hitler had photographs of documents that were in German that were found with him or that he had owned. And I started looking and all this and I thought well. I mean if this is an Hitler. This is a Nazi war criminal who for whatever reason wound up in Indonesia. And so I started to really dig into that story a lot more and that's it's a bit gradually occurred to me that maybe I was really looking at. Something very genuine that did the Indonesians are not far off. That may be it was or wasn't Hitler but it was somebody important who decided they had to hide in the middle of nowhere. Compared to Austria and Germany. And just don't live out their days in obscurity. So I looked at information I got contacted by other people and an Odyssey really began I mean living in it in Asia for longer periods of time. Dealing with a guy in Singapore. Who had actually all that original documentation we need. Actually had the physical passports and everything else on these two people. Who had escaped after the war to Indonesia and you know the guy is the right height. The right age was born in Austria. I mean everything started to fit into into this pattern and they had the same mustache he had that Hitler mustache the whole nine yards and you know looked like it or bronze so. There was a possibility of a story there and then I realized that he had died in January the end of January 1970. This suppose that Hitler character and Indonesia. It was only shortly after that. That Yuri under all of the KGB. Orders to those bodies to be dug up in Germany and cremated. While it was like. It did there was a juxtaposition of timeline there that just made me think what is going on with the story. So I went and visited the grave of the sky and Indonesia and was shocked to find out that there were no dates on the tombstone. Whereas every other tombstone in that Muslim cemetery. Has date of birth date of death. This guys didn't have didn't have many dates it's like they did know who this guy was or when he was born when he really. The it's amazing really when you dig deep into it and there's just so many stories are so many different clams. Our were gonna take a break a lot more to come to listen Jason TV Dioner alien radio. After the show it's beyond me on the radio which. We're talking Peter was offended tonight uses an historian and an. Author and he's got many books ordered wrote the book called rat line right now and Peter yet what dozen or so maybe fourteen books you've got a bunch of Emory. Polio bunch of them on various subjects or. Like to think the most chapters of one big book and still have a different phrase so what was sadly we're not gonna have a whole lot of time on suitable we have a lot of story to get to yet as it relates to Hitler and what actually happened to him after World War II. You uncover evidence you believe he's on and on her he was buried on an island died 1970 traced the path for us. Where Hitler leaves Berlin and actually ends up on the silent if in fact that's what happened. Well to understand this you have to understand something about how the Nazis managed there escapes. Was something called the wrapped line. And part of their outline was the monastery route that was the very first Rutland it was created by. The Catholic priest monsignor from Croatia. At the end of the war he was hoping the Croatian. Government which was pro Nazi. To escape to South America and then that system that he set up in use for everybody else. Including some very famous Nazis were so he was the guy that ranging all of this and what they would do is give people false identity is false papers false passports all that sort of well in this particular case what's fascinating. Is that the person who escaped to Indonesia with his wife escaped in the name or they. Welding medical. Officer and doctor. Somebody hadn't really practiced medicine was more a bureaucrat. He was the chief medical officer of the Salzburg area under the the Third Reich. Which meant he was responsible in many cases for. The the murder of people who are too sick to it useless eaters is the Nazis called the so people who might have been infirm or has some should maybe they were mentally disabled physically disabled in some way and then he would this was a guy that would make. Would order those people to be. Yeah exterminated bush so. This was a doctor they didn't really know them much about him at that time this particular doctor but they gradually the authorities gradually came to understand that this guy was probably a war criminal and they're gonna start looking for a while the doctor disappeared. Now the story is that he fled to northern Italy. And then in north Italy he laid low for a while many got his papers and escaped. The man who replaced Heinrich Himmler is head of the SS. When Himmler was caught dealing with the allies trying to save his skin was a man called parents to Carlton runner. Content runner. Was it was ahead of the SS you know after after Himmler. He was caught he was captured near Salzburg. Near overall this is taking place and he had on him. Paper showing that he was a medical doctor in fact he was carrying a doctor's bag when he was apprehended. The papers that he had were real papers of a real German doctor. So. I started to wonder if maybe this German Doctor Who went to Indonesia was not really a German doctor he was somebody like cult Brunner who was using. The papers are they real doctor in this case the doctor Georg. I'm Tom public. Now this guy was believed to have escaped. Two in northern Italy. And for some reason lays low for number of years there's a possibility that this is the guy who went to Argentina. But didn't stay there very long. And then eventually made its way to Indonesia. And the reason I guess for that. Is because I think that Hitler at the end of the war. When his own generals tried to kill him in July of 1944. Operation adultery. And when he realized that Himmler has turned against him and that most of the high command was disobeying his orders ignoring him and cutting side deals with the allies. Why would Hitler then go to Argentina were all the other Nazis were turning up. And with the danger that somebody would drop a dime on him and hand him over to the authorities that they would save their own skin. I think that Hitler would not feel safe. With his fellow Nazis around since they'll try to kill more double deal done so I think that eventually. If I was Hitler and my closest friend in the bunker was a guy called Wally able Walter Havel. Who has spent ten years and Indonesia developing the Nazi party apparatus in Indonesia before the war. Had nothing but stories about Indonesia and about living in Java and living in the various islands so much so they called him sir bio Wally. If he's never been found his body was never found he was with Hitler until the very last he was on the last people to leave the bunker. So you put all this together and suddenly you have the story that maybe Indonesia would have been a perfect place for Hitler to hide it was a Muslim country. Must Saud would not have shown up there would have been Brill a pretty. Obviously they had was one of those places where he could have bought his way into obscurity. And I believe he did buy his way into obscurity because it and evidence they came out later. That both this mysterious German doctor quote unquote and his wife had bank accounts in Jakarta. Edited very obscure Indonesian bank which later became the center of a controversy. Over something called. The revolutionary fund. Which was set up by Sukarno and Indonesia a when he took over at the end of the war and which was financed by. Nazi gold shipped from Portugal. So the whole story fell together forming that there was something more going on in Indonesia. And that these people list doctor and his wife might be the key to it might be the key to what happened to level Hitler. It's a fascinating point because the dude dude I guess common belief for those who may be talking about Hitler escaping music is the south American option. But the fact that most of those high level Nazis either did plot against or turn against Hitler in the final days. Would make it logical that he would there be somewhere else but the question I would have is Hitler was such a narcissus. Would it's it's almost difficult to believe that even in exile. He would not be looking to make a return in some way was he do you think he was so completely defeated and knew that. If he was discovered in any way that he was a dead man. That he was he was it's just satisfied to just live out his days. In obscurity in anonymity. I I get your point I see that exactly and it's very possible that and the other would have eventually felt that way initially you have been frightened for his skin you have laid low. But that he would have started plotting regular sort of plotting a comeback night and actually we have some evidence that he did that in Indonesia. During the year of living dangerously in 1965. When Sukarno was being overthrown. Because Sukarno was believed to be embed with the Communists particularly the Chinese Communists which was kind of a trumped up sword but nevertheless they overthrew some Carter on the generals took a war when that happens. For some reason. This guy who pretended to be a doctor. Shows up on the island of Bali. At the height of the massacres of ball in a Balinese people buy the these security forces there who thought all the monies were operating with the Communists or whatever coach and he actually went there he was there in Bali at that time. And then returned. Two to his island in Indonesia. Telling his wife that he felt you know great that he met some old comrades there and you know everything was going swimmingly. There's this idea that maybe he might have been involved. In the overthrow Sukarno either financially with Nazi gold or in some other way by league lending some kind of leadership or control that he was getting back into his old. In his old way of running things being the the furor. Which is why I think. By nine sheep. And goats and Java to this big port city of sura by. Which he would never did he hated leaving. His his little area there where he was kind of obscure. And and go away from all foreigners and everything else went to serve viable on a pretext that we don't quite understand. And within a day he was dead. Slam I'm one. Drink if perhaps that was engineered somebody you know convinced him to go there. When he got there at the took care of him and now he's buried in it in a cemetery that I went to visit conserve by. Is there any evidence that it's later as years past from the point where he arrived on the island to the point where he may had been considering. Trying to make a comeback. That there was communication between him or any one on the island and those exiled Nazis in South America. Well an interesting thing happened well after Sukarno took over the government. In the early in the late 1940s early 1950s. There was a visit to Indonesia by the man who had helped finance the third right. The finance minister John Mark shocked. Now he Omar shock was that was the major finance minister he was also considered a war criminal by the allies. He got out after only a very short period of time and he winds up in Indonesia again. Indonesia keeps coming up and he's there as an advisor quote on quote to Sukarno. As to what you should do to create the kind of the Carly for a look at cal or fate. And all the Muslims in southeast Asia to fight against the Chinese Communists. So he was in Java at the same time. That. This doctor was in Indonesia. And conceivably also in Java that same year. When he was setting up his bank accounts in Jakarta so. They crossed paths. Now whether they met and discussed or they would had they went through an intermediary I'm not sure. But for shocked to show up who is Hitler's right and the guy who actually helped to finance the Third Reich he shows up in Indonesia. At the time when this Hitler person would this doctor also shows up and Indonesian. And there's a lot of golden money involved in this transaction as well and financings Sukarno and the so called revolutionary fun. Which was supposed to be set up to fight the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank so there was all this stuff going on all this politicking that's taking place. You know I don't know I don't know the full story and still digging at that because the banking situation itself. Is tantalizing. Because it's an obscure bank. And yet Hitler and brawn beast to people. Look at accounts at that bank in Jakarta also something very fishy was going on Wilson do you believe that there's more. More information that would say that Hitler went to Indonesia then Argentina and because I know a lot of the reports out there are a lot of belief alters that he made its Argentina and it's a big German colony author's well and and in those areas do you think that there's more evidence to support Indonesia. Over Argentina. I think in terms of the possibilities I think there's just as much information let's put it this way just as much evidence to suggest. Indonesia I used to think Argentina in in and initially when I started covering the starch and then I looked at all these these documents of the CIA the FBI and also that was going back and forth to Hoover. About sightings of Hitler all over the place I thought to myself. Come it there would have been better. I better information in this when I started looking at some of the other Nazi colonies in South America in Chile Argentina Paraguay. And in Brazil. I thought to myself. You know we know we're almost everybody wants we know we're mangalore was for instance we kept on missing him all the time they've picked up Eichmann in 1960. Which would have scared the hell out of Hitler had he been in Argentina at the time. Because they would have really gone after Hitler salute the sort of like. On that everybody else wound up Walter wrote Honda Erik Priebke crunched on all these high ranking Nazis wound up in Latin America. Camera kind of known the Israelis even sort of held back. From a going after the rest of them for a lot of reasons mostly geopolitical. If Hitler had been there I think they would have found and I just think that. That would have been their prime target and I think and nobody really would have thought looking in Indonesia of all places that was just. Whale off the radar. Which I think it was the safest place since there was a Nazi connection there and even a Nazi party apparatus. Where they Gestapo was going they're towing the Japanese. What Jews to arrest and put in the camps I mean it was of that deep. And there are a submarine traffic going from. From Germany to. Indonesia there was a lot of German submarine traffic back and forth they were open the Japanese and the Japanese were supplying them with raw materials so there was this constant intercourse back and forth between Europe. And Indonesia for world during the entire period of the war so it seemed to me that there was this whole Indonesian. Element of the story has been ignored until now. Nobody really paid attention to it but the evidence is there there's photographs there is you know testimony there's documents there's everything there was a large Nazi apparatus there. Well and you if you think about it and coming to Argentina it's it would appear as if he was pretty much in our own backyard it would be yet. Sort of mysterious things heading out to Indonesia sort of which out of the way of every site. Absolutely Peter we only have a couple minutes left but one of the things I think we've failed to do with the story is really accurately portray the timeline how long did this man. Hiding in Europe and I think it was northern Italy that you said before here is he made his escape from Europe. To wherever and ended ended up in ending up in Indonesia. Well we know a handful of things we know that the the so called doctor wound up in northern Italy in 1946. And then he left Europe four in Tunisia. In. The late 1950 to 1953. Early 1953. So there's this big chunk of time. That's unaccounted for which is the mysterious part of the story for me because it doesn't make sense to documents that we have the records that this guy kept. Shows that he had all the information about the rat lines that he needed he had the name and address of that Catholic priest I mentioned he had the names and addresses of safe houses throughout north Italy. All the way to Genoa. There was even evidence he was taking Spanish wasn't mean everything is there in this documentation. That suggested the sky would have gone to Argentina. And then suddenly. We have other documentation. Showing that he left Rotterdam. In the Netherlands on a ship bound for. For Jakarta. So there's this disconnect there's a space of time between 46 and 53. Where it. You do unbelievably he's still in northern Italy which is why I tended to think that the doctor went to northern Italy and and the doctor was removed. And replaced with Hitler when they found a suitable guy who looked like him. Cool spoke German with an Austrian accent. The way this guy would have got me in the right size the right shape even downs with a mustache. This guy was sort of a dead ringer. So good maybe there was that that space of time was to develop this alternate personality. One final question and we don't have to let you go this is a quick one though. I'm going back to the Russians and their discovery of these bodies do you believe that the Russians were complicit in a cover up here or just where they just. Did they just bungled the whole thing. I think they've bungled it initially but by 1970 hunter brought knew there was something wrong with the bodies which is what he had them destroy it doesn't make any sense otherwise. And that cover their tracks Peter thanks so much for coming hang in our office and it's always a pleasure talking you know we look forward to having you on again in the near future. No worries man yet Peter please promise to come back and I want to remind everybody this whole story Peters evidence and everything he's discovered in talks about here talk but here tonight. Is available on the book rat lines and the follow book the Hitler legacy so. Check out all of that on Amazon and everywhere else that so books are sold Peter thank you so much. Thank you priority quick break America wraps things up Youkilis and Jason dvd on Alec. Surface. Discussion Peter in the event they're gonna say what actually happens at around. The current usage. And we only to really begin the discussion if you wanna find out more about Peters a version of events and he's got a lot of great information that supports. His version grab his book rat line it's a fantastic book and it really outlines that argument very very well but it's still a big mystery and one that boy we should have some answers to. Yet and I definitely feel liquid Duke's yep Alex I did I I wasn't aware how inept. The Russians wore. At the end of the war when they found these bodies and a big took of him buried him and took them and buried him and took an important paired him and under a parking lot and paved over I mean stuff and it makes cents on and it makes sense in these are bodies that are of significant historical importance and I understand. Like when we got we killed Osama bin Laden we didn't want a grave we didn't want was so he was injected into the ocean are buried at sea air so that there couldn't be martyrs. Because we understood that but yet we don't we handled that properly and we documented properly and the mean that's the same thing here that. There should have been some evidence captive so that people knew that this was actually at work if in fact it was. Capsule itself. Aaron and we may she tune in tomorrow yes some great shows coming up you'll listen to Jason NGV beyond reality reveal catch all tomorrow night. And the only news tastes good Jason Hanson GB Jackson into this one held Susan Johnson insisted. So it can only be a really great news distribute them. Yeah you know it's still going to face the agency hello Hayden sent peacekeepers well Jason knows all the chiefs host attempts to TV Johnson following. TV chief paranormal if you talk to be just on beyond Rio Rio or you have a suggestion for guest contact slick Eddie Edwards at slick Eddie Edwards at gmail.com be short visit our chat room as well I'd beyond reality review dot com thanks for listening.