Aug 11, 2017|
Jason Hawes & JV Johnson welcome guest Larry Hancock and discuss the latest in the hunt and the explanation for/of UFOs. 8/11/2017 - Beyond Reality Radio with Jason Hawes & JV Johnson
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
I cannot be owned by scientific method. You're six. Send him tall and. Creature that's been seen my many little life you know. And de Ferran good morning mining boom Herron online inning and news features and yeah me. He lying then yeah real mania apple is lying game. It also shape shifting mentioned you. My experience it's an experience. A. It's Monday on the West Coast Tuesday in the East Coast many stuff. And between what ordinary unreal you're deal with myself Jason Allison and always some G age thanks Jim got a lot to go overnight we're going to be talking with Larry Hancock about UFO's government involvement and what it's been going on in our skies can be a great discussion. We're gonna get right to it. After this break it's beyond reality rating. Thanks Derrick Todd might be over for this year but there's another scare economy works you owe it to yourself to check out the details notice Derek Holland dot com that's Garrett con. Dot com sign up for the email list and be informed you need to know what's going on with scary con because it's the best weekend of the year scare coming clean celebrities fans. Vendors parties panel discussions film premieres and so much more it's a weekend you'll never forget it everyone is welcome visit the website scary time dot com that spirit con dot com and. It's beyond reality review Jason Allison GD Jones. And as soon he said in the beginning the program Jane this is one of the topics that we really enjoyed talking about because we've been suspicious we have been curious we have been inquisitive about government practices and such as it relates to the UFO community forums. You know the last time start talking about government government cover ups the justice appear to our show shut down we Arum you know hundred stations cross country several. Have that happen and it it it's one of those on. But yet funny things yet yet weak holiday quote unquote coincidence but who knows when Chris goes Chicago's Derrick our guest tonight will have a lot to say about this and more it's Larry Hancock Larry is a researcher and an author on his latest book is called unidentified the national intelligence problem of UFOs Larry welcome to beyond reality radio it's so great to have you on the show tonight. It's great to be here I'm not so happy about that gets disappear behind us. 120 no he came back a misunderstanding it's. It was ever there it was funny because while we're talking Larry it was like everything with the show not like I said we we're on a hundred you know hundred stations across the country. Everything with the show shut down. And our audio stopped and Emery is so of course are syndicator head start playing other audio until we came back up but it what it was just one of those things we never had a problem we start talking about the simple more off the air. Yeah. Well at consult the let's hope that's not the case Larry again thanks for joining us what we need to know first is who you are you've got a lot of experience has done a lot of things give us a little bit of a sense of how you got to where ER. I sure have basically the work I've been doing in the books I've been doing. I started after I retired I was in the air force. Then went into. Corporate America communications computers that sort of thing marketing and PR. But originally back in the beginning I've taken my degree in history and cultural anthropology. And after retirement I wanted to get back in just some things related to history especially Cold War history which it in my long term interest. So in the last fifteen years so I started working. Basically in areas. Of military Cold War history. But not just military Covert operations Covert political action. Political assassinations. Ten of the darker side. That sort of history. And that led me into doing books on political assassination. Led me to. Literally reading tens of thousands of pages. FBI and CIA documents skinny and very involved with. Document collections. Becoming known as the document he could. And and moving on from an end to adhere areas that interest to me and in terms of the national intelligence community after. After it got comfortable with the way the agencies were operating then and did a lot of self education on moved on to. Subject areas like. Covert action and and command and control during crises and on to an area that I had always been interest that which basically was how the government had really responded. Two unidentified flying objects because. I had a feeling from living through most of that period of time that what we were saying in the press was not exactly what was going on behind the saints. Wait so they weren't really just all the balloons. Probably. Yeah. Larry you seemed to alarm the way develop a propensity in a real desire to find in tell the truth. Do you feel like that's kind of become your life's mission at this point. I do because one of the things I've found in all the areas that don't win. Is there are some real history I mean we have accomplished a lot over the last couple of death case was freedom of information inquiries. Which records releases. And so we can see a lot of the real history and we can set that aside. Each of the areas that I dealt with it's also. Had its own. Its own set of what I would call list to build up over time some of those Smith came from the year very early years when you didn't have. Real information you were just going off. Limited date let's put it that way and there was a lot of speculation and then. And we really don't have solid data that's where you can't stand up so my. My question is meant to straddle the fence between the areas. Getting to the real history and also dealing aware of these this cycle that are grown up. Well especially with the the government is notorious for putting out misinformation. To sort of get people off of any leads correct uses it's been going on forever and Ayers era. Actual government projects that used to at least do in the past and probably still do that was it specifically designed to manipulate. The media to get information out there that was incorrect to to get people awful the sense of any of the stuff. Oh absolutely and and I guess the US now we we realize that those were standard practices things like the mockingbird project of the CIA essentially back during the fifties and sixties to. Literally control the story is that the media was telling about international events about. That a large number of things especially international. Activities and Covert action and and that's continued the military has its own set of practices and within. Counterintelligence. Work and and all these groups say it it's not really mysterious that's part of the intelligence practices. To use. This information and misinformation. And psychological warfare psychological warfare. Became a. Standard practice for America jury award to afterwards you actually had the creation of all we call these psychological warfare strategy board. And when you get into this side GQ realize there. Psychological warfare was one of the greatest concerns that the intelligence community especially. The central intelligence group from the CIA. During the earliest years of the Cold War because space seriously thought. That someone might be using say the. UFO. Phenomena the creation of citing his creation and creation of sideways. As saying site too little psychological warfare and they thought the Russians were doing it as a matter fact. In 19:46. The central intelligence group. Told president Truman's that there is absolutely what the Soviets were doing and we using unidentified aerial logic. As psychological warfare against the west to counter. The west. Atomic. Atomic supremacy and the American comics supremacy and and create some kind of like balance and fear. Our interest interest area but some let's. Kind of move back to your book unidentified specifically. You mentioned. That. You know viewers there were standard methods of conventional and tech technical intelligence used by the intelligence community. What does that mean anything exactly how was the intelligence community. Taking. Reports of unidentified flying object was that it was seriously. Was it to for grudgingly what was the attitude of the intelligence intelligence community's deep is these reports came in. Well within and and we have to again intelligent beauty is say huge thanks to first tele. Only have to grab what these are dealing with initially. It was literally army intelligence during the war war world war two and immediately after and then air force says that separated into a separate service. Today warm most concerned about it and seriously concerned about it because as you mentioned. During the war and am quite frankly there was. Not really a period of non war the Cold War transitions. Almost immediately from. Active warfare against the Germans to a series of Covert military encounters with the Soviets. And on into Korea during that whole period of time as far as the air force field personnel were concerned. Air defense personnel. I air crews. Any unidentified aerial object. Was a potential threat. And so they're they're not looking at this as a matter of alien contact or extraterrestrials. They're looking and it doesn't matter in terms classic terms. Into the bogey which means I just don't know what it is. Or is that a ban that which means the next I am gonna do is take incoming fire. So we really need to get over the concept that the military would ever has not taken these unidentified aerial objects seriously because. They know they were immediately put into the context of the potential threat. Yeah because anything that showing up outside of what's it's supposed to be according to them when the when they know about what they have information on the let alone. I'm sure it counts the FIA and then knowing about commercial planes anything that doesn't fall under that. It has got to be a terrifying scenario does at this exact point you might have something coming in to purposely attack and destroy. Well let's transmit the entire military reporting system. During the 1950s. And early 1960s. UFOs essentially were treated as part of what are called. Service reports which is how do you communicate anything which might be a national security threat and and obviously. At that point in time they were thinking about Soviet bomber formation. Soviet reconnaissance fly. Missile test some of the things. Some of the things that had gone on immediately. Following World War II over Scandinavia. Certainly looks like the Russians had the capability to use missiles and as psychological warfare devices so. All of the reporting structure was. Would set up under what you would call tactical intelligence basically. Just somebody sees something could it be a threat let's reported and then we'll be aware that. And and that was the scenario that was it was not. It was not that scientific orientation and it wasn't. Might not be the way that we treated now because you have to accept that again immediately following the war if you start looking at C. Intelligence community reports. They began pay preparing for preemptive atomic strikes against the Soviets and running. All sorts of reconnaissance flights over Soviet territory. And leave forecasting an immediate. Certainly by in 19501952. Soviet preemptive nuclear strike against the US. So so when you have it set in that context. This is a very serious subject. Yet not only serious by Tim frightening in a lot of ways and you had a sub as you mentioned following World War II almost immediately. You have a nation being the United States just on edge. And fearful of some type of attack from the Soviet Union and that didn't that didn't really end until we gotten I don't know I don't know what do you think into the eighties and boy. Sure exactly I can tell you I remember the seventies and in school and upstate new York and Jimmy. Beings a having the alarms go off. And training and we had to go in the hallway you can sit down put our heads in the corner you don't talk our heads down in the corner because and it was one of those bomb alarm and you know training things. So him when they want forever. You had buildings and every community there were designated as fallout shelters and it was just a way of life an and in its interest in look at it look at the senate unidentified flying objects from that perspective. When the intelligence community first started. Kind of Dennett keeping us a dossier and unidentified flying object was ever a point. Where they started to introduce the discussion of extraterrestrial origin. Yes their lives and that actually occurred fairly early on. If you look at and we can see is now it. It's an interesting thing if you look at the very first. Reports during these lines saucer or no way that 1947. When it became a topic of national discussion. The air force immediately. Determined internally. That these were real objects. That this wasn't. Somebody was saying something that was real their air crews were staring train them they were being reported. It was not a hoax it was not natural phenomena. There was something real at the core is 34. And that's. It's something we don't really realize because they take total disconnect from the public relations statements that were initiated the time. It's really fascinating to lay them down side by side. And look at what was going on. Internally in terms of do you communications. Vs what the PR folks percent. But it. Probably took about a year of investigation. By variety within a year by the following summer in 1948. Achieved for Wright Patterson which should be in the air force technical investigations group which have been assigned to. Basically pursue this century identify what these things or it was anticipated that they would be rations it was actually. The documents say that it was anticipated that they would be Russian derivatives. Integrated swept wing aircraft that have been developed by the Germans support the brokers. And that directions were proceeding to build mass quantity of those for a strike. Well we technical intelligence began looking into it. They pretty quickly discounted that and then. After they discounted that fairly early in 1948. They started looking at options and there were a couple of citing a couple of minutes. They were truly a novel but say they felt. They felt that really is no scientific explanation or certainly in contemporary technology. And it seemed actually. Produced what appears to have been a white paper. Proposing that. These could be extraterrestrials or they could have an extra shall source. Which would explain the unconditional technology and that list. Floated at the Pentagon level of air intelligence. We. We know that happens. First from the people we're involved in doing it but secondly. Later air force reports even document that that was investigated by Wright Patterson. What occurred banned the problem basically is if you step back and think about it. It's here in charge of air force intelligence. If your going to. Take a report like that from your technical intelligence Steve you're going to have to go out to the general intelligence community with. You're going to have to. Given it to sell basically because obviously that would Libya. Hi Lee controversy ill positioned for intelligence group to play. Well the push back on that was that they needed. Standard technical intelligence from the waist standard technical intelligence work is. You've got tea part. You've got to have bits and pieces. You've got to have something that you have done technical work on. And that has the support. You're proposition. And they didn't have not only did they not have. Bits and pieces. The other problem with technical intelligence threat after the war was the United States head. No air defense network we'd take him down all the year defense radars. Everybody had to rush to get everybody out of uniform out of at the end of the war. We had very few operational fighters. They're literally point one of these when this group asked for aircraft to be used to. Chase UFO's to obtain photos. Or radar tracking the Nortel that there were no resources available. And of course that residual quandary because you actually don't wanna communicate to the public. That the nations say is threatened by erections and he has no aired it. Yeah and they're not prepared for a certain yup there we have to run to break it's beyond reality reading we get a lot more coming up. They beyond reality radio friends and you know most of the guests featured on beyond reality Radiohead books and other interesting offerings for our listeners can now be made it even easier for you to get a hold of them just visit the beyond reality read your web. Get beyond real radio dot com and click on the gas tab in then you better from there you'll see recent beyond reality radio guests with a short find help and some of the things they're offering are beyond reality radio listeners hooked on whatever you're interested in and to order street from there it could. Be easier that's beyond reality radio dot com click on the gas tap in the menu and then simply sit back enjoy beyond reality. Don't forget that's beyond reality radio dot com just click on the guest menu headings. And then you'll find what you want and thanks for listening to beyond reality radio. It shows beyond reality radio Jason. Allison Jimmie Johnson before I went to break Larry was talking about. Basically that the military picking up things that they couldn't identify and just not having the resources to be able to deal with the ease. Objects there we're showing up with unconventional technology. Are when you when you say that are you referring to the fact that. They didn't show up on the conventional radar systems that we are using at that Ty name they were moving at a higher speed them we're used to seeing what was the unconventional technology it was coming off them. Good and good question actually and and by the way that is documented in one of the earliest air force intelligence reports of 97. They 1947 April file. Exactly. What these signature for these craft star. Specifically in terms. Operational performance maneuvering speed. And no radar tracking was not really a part of it because. We really didn't have. The radar systems in place. Depict Israelis get a novelist tracks and basically. All of this was based on the observations. From air crews from ground personnel military bases. From a few limited attempts to intercept. The objects visually. And I would say. The profile the physical nature of the objects dish shaped. Cigar shaped oval shaped. We have with no obvious swing in other words what would you. Calling blend between the fine and we type aircraft today it like to be too. Was totally unconventional so that shapes of the job XP report totally unconventional. Their menu for what's totally unconventional but it could clearly make. Right angle turn. Yeah high degree turns that. Would impose a level of G force on a pilot. That wish just totally out of line for any kind of where fly again today. With certain of our crowns are unmanned aircraft. Probably you could duplicate that but. Certainly that wasn't even. On the drawing boards backed ban it the other factor was the speed. And literally. They couldn't go to what appeared to be supersonic speeds. Leaving no. Note sounds like they've now. Evidence that they were breaking the sound barrier and certainly we didn't understand that technology. Well when you say. The angles of these things can turn iron memory innings imports of these things turning at. Estimated sixty to ninety degree he turns it be making rights and laughs and ups and downs at that at that angle and that's what you're referring to correct. I am at it and make gets worse even worse than that later on when we did have radar tracking. Because you know it just kind of easy at CAA. Visual observation that somebody doing in Iraq and legal term but when we had radar tracking. You actually have tracks where the objects appear to almost instantaneously. Reversed their course. The jet is chasing any object and certainly the object is coming up did you. Glitch and. You know either. A really severe turn nor the ability just to immediately don't want lady. Will now Larry I also remember reading a report that and that was where some of the series came in that these objects were. We're round in shape and that they were spitting while they were in the air and that's why they would have the ability where they're going forward and put their spinning. At any given time the front could be the back allowing them to also ghost into reversed giving the appearance of going into reverse but really just shooting back the other way correct. Right issued an and that there were reports sustaining that it's not uncommon. To probably the two most common. Types of sudden motion internal motion would be that they were rotating. Especially the disk or rotate as fairly common. Or bit of course the other thing was that these things appeared to be able to stop and literally cover and place to hold position. And when they award. Doing bad they lost to observe defeat. As wobbly. Basically it what was called falling least motion moving from side to side. So those were were both common the end I think that was very common there. In terms of maneuvering in the early days and became less so in fact that's one of the pattern changes is. During the first few years is very common to observe formation. Of these desk. And observed formations and very tightly controlled my U free flights as very high speed. Again something whipped today is computer control has grown swarms. You can do but back then it would have been impossible even for pilots to maneuver information. At those speeds. You'd usually see Christina that kind of over time that. Kind of patterns. A pretty much faded away but it is very common in the first few years. Yes things similar to what our blue angels do now when planes book a lot of times these things to be motionless dudes and they would actually be hovering in there. In those patterns correct. Absolutely and moving again not movies and kind of airshow type formation where you. Even when you're tightly going over the field he's circle and come back over the field you go up or down vertically. These things again would do those ninety degree turns 180 degree turn. Information. Or we're talking with Larry Hancock author of the book unidentified the national intelligence problem of UFOs were gonna go to break we come back we will morn talk about. Don't go away it's beyond reality dating Jason into. It's beyond reality radio and Jason cause JB Johnson great show going into a titan Larry. Hancock author of the book. Unidentified the national intelligence problem of UFOs. So there if you got an intelligence community and military apparatus that is so detecting these things. Can't explain these things at some point that then intelligence community or military apparatus has to be very very Natalie alarmed by it down. React to it what was the reaction and how. Did we as a nation. From a military standpoint. Prepare for whatever whatever they turned out these were going to be. Well this strange thing is I have introduced the word denial. The response primarily was. What the air force drifted into what is that they. The approach that you couldn't respond to them and wish you officially. Identified them identify their source. And identified the threats in other words if I if I can't. Identify this thread quantify that threat put it in to a report. Then I can't spend money defending against it I can't allocate resources and war that you think she's seeing is it. Even through the first. Seven or eight years. Whenever someone and then their intelligence group would. Proposed allocating considerable resources to set out tracking stations. Or deployed special squadrons of aircraft for interceptions. Those proposals or never accept it. Because. Literally they're the official reports that submitted. War all submitted in terms. Negative. We can't identify these things they remain anonymous always. They could be natural phenomena. We can't positively tell you that there are real they could be a psychological warfare there that they could be Soviet reconnaissance. We just can't tell you and nobody responds to do we can't tell you by allocating a lot of resources. But now that's not to say that a lot of resources didn't get allocated. But they got allocated to the fans thinking discretion bomber attacks. Russian bomber attacks which. Could be quantify it we knew what they looked like we did. We could catch them we could come up with missiles to intercept bam. One of the interesting things is that. In the mid fifties when the air force essentially. More or less abandoned the effort and and gave up on me there to deal with the true unknowns the realist novel exciting it is. They move forward with a program called stage. Which spans a massive amount of money more than the atomic bomb project. To put him. The next generation fighters. To put an anti. Aircraft missile. The rain surround all the major cities and defense cancellations. But the fascinating thing is. None of those. Defenses. Would have been able to cope when is the behaviors. The truly anomalous reports that they had on file and it. They had the radar tracks for. Hundreds of miles long showing objects moving at three to 6000 miles per hour. No the defense system that they were moving forward where is. Could've dealt with ads that's likely take always anomalous things you just set them apart as unknowns. And they you spend your money. Dealing with the threat that you can't quantify. Which Hillary is directions preemptive strike. But you'd think that something moving and that many thousands of miles per hour would be an incredible concern and that they would invest. I know that there's reports that they invested a lot of off the books money. Into these projects. But they never things that were really on the books because like we said they couldn't be figured out they couldn't be identified so. Really in their perception that they wanted to give file. Was at these things were not not a concern or whatever but the fact of the matter is. Something moving at that rate of speed should be a major concern. Oil eventually some of those investments I would say did show up in antimissile missile. Anti ICBM missiles. They certainly did in advance. Money and and they can come onto the scene until the 1960s. But they did and best R&D money in two. Anti missile missile that could deal where the incoming objects on ballistic terrain trajectories. Thousands of miles an hour. But if you notice even today and 20s17. We're still having arguments distorted those same missiles can intercept a cluster of dummy warheads were still doing trials. So I guess my argument would be I've heard and seen the discussion of off the books money if they plow and a lot of money into weapons systems of that sort we still haven't seen them. Yet we added that this book has also definitely there's a lot of money through the years that. Seems to randomly disappear parent mayor buddy I I totally agree with you as well we're talking with Larry Hancock he's the author of the book unidentified the national intelligence problem of UFOs several other books to Larry's credit as well surprise attack from Pearl Harbor to 9/11 have been Ghazi and shadow warfare we're gonna touch on all those things. Are you mentioned that some you know the more you you broke the word to deny ability or denial into the conversation. Is that. Another way of saying that and did this the intelligence community in northern military complex if it figured if if they can't identify and they can't. Put oh label on and that the best thing to do. Is two on just ignore it too is that it's happening. To a large extent it's correct it. It's fascinating to look at some of the internal communications serves. There's a communication between the commander of the intelligence group that Wright Patterson that the technical intelligence group because. You understand the structure of these things it's slayer that you have. Pentagon air intelligence you have command air intelligentsia. Field intelligence. And they were as serious disconnect all along the line the further the further you go down in the field the more real these things are. And they're asking for explanations. The further up the chain of command Chico. Wind. Nobody can come up with any explanations. It becomes a PR response rather than a military response from the military responses. Just keep reporting them and maybe we'll get a handle on it but. The communication I'm talking about the the commander here force essentially knows that he as a public relations problem because the press this remains interest of this is as the popular type topic for years. Any chance for. Proposal what kind of response that we're going to give and the response to get through Wright Patterson is literally. Well let's just talk about the ones that we can identify. And not the other. And pretty much those terms. And that becomes over a period of time essentially the air force policy it's quite we will. We will talk about what we can identify. Him and all the things that cause. Think objects to be on it in a five wood there's their natural phenomenon astronomical phenomenon. We'll talk about all that and we'll talk about that so much. That if we can just get this percentage down loan of for the real unknown. Nobody will pay any attention to where at least they better yet they won't worry about them and that is the strategy that developed within the air force now. Amazingly enough from the PR standpoint. It was totally ineffective. But they really didn't have any other response. Is that what you were referring to when you say in the description of bump your book on it unidentified you say the unknowns had beaten the system is that we're talking about. Absolutely. Because the because that and that's where that's. Kind of where is the system got beaten as the classic techniques conventional. Field intelligence or you're working with enemy weapons on. And even new enemy. Air development that sort of thing you get to interview people eat its stake prisoners. You you have Cray issue is you. Even during the Cold War we were very good at. And acquiring Soviet aircraft sometimes we'd buy them from people sometimes we steal them. It's conventional. Field intelligence. Technical intelligence he use all of your technical assets electronic. Signals. That whole body of things well when there really literally didn't work against these true unknowns. There wasn't any kind of bring him to play at the air force level there were other techniques called indications analysis spatter analysis. But to do that the air force would have had to admit defeat. And essentially kicked that to the national security council for the CIA. That becomes another story but. Before I leave that topic I he needed. To go back to World War II for a minute and say that those. Those. Feel intelligence techniques to duke and college state work. Very well and then environment during war or two and it's actually proved to be a task. Feel intelligence personnel were able to at dinner fine from the observer reports. Every single. German and Japanese. New technology weaponry that was introduced during the course the war in most cases. They identified them strictly from observer reports. Started publishing newsletters on how to deal with them accepted. Tactics to deal with them. It's interesting that later on when the UFO showed. There was actually a proposal from one of their air force scientific consultants. To launch a series. Test objects Stallone's two whatever and see if observers can accurately identify them. That was never funded but. The wartime experience shows that observers and fully do effectively. Describe unknown and unexpected objects. Even when they're not expecting them the. Great conversation with Larry Hancock author of the book unidentified the national intelligence problem of UFOs where his mother books to his credit including. Shadow warfare. And surprise attack from Pearl Harbor to 9/11 to ring Ghazi was talking about those as well as the conversation continues. Don't forget tomorrow night we have the Bruce Bruce show the true we've got Bruce Goldberg talking about sound a time travel. And the fifth dimension and Bruce Marcus and who is a Cooperstown historian. And has vowed to cool ghost stories that you'll share with this it's all coming up on beyond reality radio. We're gonna go to break when we come back we'll continue our conversation with Larry Hancock our telephone numbers 8446877669. Don't go away so much. More coming up on beyond reality radio Jason and cheesy. Game scary time might be over for this year but there's another scary kind in the works you owe it to yourself to check out the details notice Derek Carr and dot com that's Garrett con. Dot com to sign up for the email list and be informed you need to know what's going on with scary con because it's the best weekend of the year scare coming clean celebrities fans. Vendors parties panel discussions film premieres and so much more it's a weekend you'll never forget it everyone is welcome to. Visit the website scary time dot com that spirit con dot com. It's on the West Coast to stand East Coast many stow them between what many honor really here to deal with myself Jason I was in the always some G. Age but. UFOs and had a conversation get a pretty intense. So let's jump right back into it with Larry as you. Sorted through the documents and researched this Tom you employed strategic intelligence practices. What does that mean because it's a completely different look than what was being done contemporary early and and bu what was your conclusion based on that. It was is basically. This is that these are practices that were developed during the Cold War. To deal with the exactly this situation situations where you were getting. Information. Or eat you couldn't absolutely confirm any given incident you had siding unit report. You used it. Your adversaries were trying to cover up what they were doing and they were putting about disinformation. On the you weren't in the state of war so the information that you. Padilla was was not fall it was and it was it could be almost everything logistically somebody. Stopping in the shipping that as a certain time or starting champion at a certain time is actually. Monitoring. Shipping patterns that first disclosed the possibility of Cuban missile from him. Are Russian national from Cuba the same thing disclose the potential. Chinese intervention and creed you start looking at a lot of little things which you look at patterns no no one answered van. Have to re resolved by itself don't want an incident might be confirmed. As you can imagine this. This really applies to unidentified flying object observations. And and lose ten to creating large data sets and yet you've got to have lots of observations. Over a period of time you've got to be able to create a baseline you've got to be able look at patterns from the observations. Train him see what changing what isn't. That's the sort of thing that air force intelligence folks. Really that the field level don't do and never were allowed to do this is normally done by teams at. Under the CIA supervision and working for the National Security Council. Indications and warning intelligence groups we started going bad and still do it by the way. It requires a lot of digging in the and a lot of list and a lot of grunt work you don't look at each individual incident you look at the ball. In other words or should it just a manpower was overwhelming interest too overwhelming for just CIA and so forth to try to do with themselves. Yes it certainly the the advent of computers really and one of the things is I was able to use. Computerized databases. Military unit UFO's citing. That have been built over the last twenty years again. Back in the fifties and sixties. None of that existed these were all paper files they were paper files from the and then archive by the air force. And it's only recently that some really diligent. Persistent researchers have put it all in the databases where I can even go through it. And that's selective what they decide to put in their freedom it would go through work. That's or. Well actually in this case not a yes or no obviously but the database I used comes out of the air force archives they're all. Military siding. Security related sightings. And it. I decided to study the unknown portion. Of the air force blue book archives. So this is a database that literally focuses on the truly anomalous. Unknown. Side means that the air force could not classifying it the other way. Larry when we come down to these. What you just described the actual unknown sightings of things they could not explain away there's just no role logic based on what we know and and we couldn't define what they work. Do you come to any conclusions after all of your research into this as to what they were and you know where they came from. That's the real challenge what's what's what you want from the real intelligence groups as indications analysis. Which is sort of a wrestling here. We'll tell you things about intentions. Possibly about motive. It will tell you what. The purported and the serious. Is thinking about doing to you what I can I do come up with conclusions about that because there are some very concrete patterns. Even though these devices Warren now and I couldn't tell you where their mom what they were intrastate man and what they were doing it becomes very clear. And it becomes very clear. And the patterns involved in becomes very clear in the beginning of the they were absolutely concerned about atomic weapons development. And concern to the level of not only. Where and how and what weapons were being developed but where they were being stockpiled. They were concerned about it. The atomic test and did collections against the radioactive particles. From the atomic testing. And the pattern evolved from a focus on the observation and then intrusions. The production and storage part of the complex. To the deployment of the weapons that it becomes very obvious that once the weapons have been created in man. These. Unknowns are not interested in production anymore they understand that they're following the weapons through deployment orders to sac bases. Fact armories onside it bases or ICBM complexes. We're talking with the Larry Hancock he's the author of the book unidentified the national intelligence problem of viewer flows we're gonna take a break. A when we come back we're gonna switch topics a little bit I'm gonna talk more about yeah. Channel on warfare and surprise attack. It's always been. Our guest is Mary Hancock we could talk about some really interesting things. All UFO's. And that's and that's a big. And had some misunderstanding Jim altar and I think you degree. Where most of the people think the many say UFO's a year instantly talking abouts. Patients gets kind of Thomas can come the Kleenex so much you know tissues it just exactly that everybody thinks means one thing but it's actually deeper than that. Well because the minute you identify something it's not the UFO anymore now it's again a fights off a disk space ship that's on a UFO to spaceship. And is that that's that's a big misconception that a lot of the individuals felt there. But our our guest is Larry Hancock and we've been talking to some really great things and when they trailing around whistler. You he Larry I've got I think one more question as a relates to the topic of unidentified flying objects and it and that's as probably the million dollar question but we have anything to fear. That's how I concluded that the answer is. No there's no sign of any imminent threat to. There's a sign up what I call messaging. And I know people criticize this as kind of awful law but. If you look at the pattern that these intrusions on the penetration. There is a message basically mean given that. Whatever these are whoever they are. They totally understand our comic warfare complex. And some of the most recent events indicate that there absolutely willing to compromise. And this thanks to it if they so choose to sell me a message was delivered. We didn't receive it but there's. There's no indication. Immediate threat the message was delivered we chose to ignored and that's it. The only thing I would say either batter they have if they have the evil intentions isn't much longer times and the week at the present. Well exactly because I mean if they have the ability to meet kids here and and it moves the way these things have been seen moving at the speeds are being able to turn the way they are. Then they far. They've made far away our technology. And if they had bad intentions. And they just wanted to start and I mean it would be that easy for them to do it. If it would be and I think interest mainly an assist for my cultural anthropology yet came back on. I started looking at some of the the ongoing patterns patterns later than the eighties and the eighties and nineties. And one of the interesting things is. We may well have confuse them because they did everything in the world to get this message across and when you look at even the air force report you can see. The message is there people understand what's going on they just don't acknowledge it. But in later after this is over after those ICBM base there's a serious also is over. You get an entirely new pattern of observations that emerge. For example the Hudson River valley. North that you're actually north in New York City for 45. Years and more you have literally. Tens of thousands of people observed lol altitude. Evening nighttime some daytime. Artificial constructs flying at low speeds. Close to the ground. These people made reports that the press the media military. And the response from the Air Force's. Or we don't do that anymore we don't even take UFO reports we stop doing that. Their response from the FAA was what we don't take UFO reports either. And he's sort of have to wonder it's like. What you have to do to communicate what these people nobody even wants to see this anymore. Oh do you think that may be though we just have the technology that we see them or we were able to pick up where they are and did so they just don't want it in the date themselves with some with all these people. Who have had these encounters it's just now that they'd be seen them why have somebody tell them what they saw. Actually I I don't and the reason why don't if I hit not now a lot of the work at it for surprise attack to understand the current state of air defense network I think most Americans don't understand. How the air force. In the air defense network went away. Following the Cold War we have the defense network that. Concentrated. On primarily on space threats. And what I'm talking about here is right down to the ground and low altitude and as recently as. Two years ago you and I guys flying an ultralight. From. New York New Jersey and landed on the White House lawn and nobody saw coming. And that ultra life is pretty much at the same height and speed of what I'm talking about Hudson River valley. I whip our our defenses. Are not optimize for that even on 911 we face the fact that we had done away with all of our air defense. Surveillance radars. And more reliant on FA FAA. Transponder. Bass track you turn off the transponders and bad things happen. So not now I don't I think it's just. The bottom line is no one ever defined these things as say true threats. As we just discussed I couldn't find them as a true imminent threat either. And the military ought never has enough money for the threats that it actually does the line and that's where they'd look. You that's a nice transition Larry so wanna talk about your book surprise attack and some of it the researching conclusions that you came to a netbook because one of the things that we've talked about on this program often. Particularly as it relates to 9/11 or even Pearl Harbor. Is that the advance. Knowledge that the US government had. You know where's the line did we have enough to to know that soon enough that we could've prevented some of this or did we just have enough to think something might happen. And their four it's still would've been considered a surprise and I'm hoping you can said shed some light on all of us. I would say after looking and that that was my that was my question that led to doing the book it was literally. Kind of day to face questions eight do we ever have warning do we have enough warning. And one week camp warnings does the command and control system work. Ian it's like okay you're gonna have warning that all the intelligence analysts will tell you it. It's not difficult for them to generate warnings what is always difficult is to get attention to those warnings and and what I saw from Pearl Harbor to 9/11 is there and so when war warnings. In regard to Pearl Harbor. We were in. Officially anticipating. The military commands from the Pacific from Alaska and the war at the Panama Canal to the Philippines. And the Hawaii. Had them. Warned of input Japanese attack. The Philippines in particular and I think one of the mistakes we often think about it. It wasn't just Pearl Harbor Pearl Harbor until the Philippines were attacked at essentially the same time. And we totally failed. And both of them. Pearl Harbor had even I mean the Philippines have a even more warning but the bottom line is if you study the report from documents. They were on war alert Hawaii it was supposed to be and the Philippines and those that are coming in its war on 24/7. War alert. Yet the local commands. Didn't implement the war alert. The same way that the war department thought that they war and communications. Were absolutely atrocious I think. Pearl Harbor in the Philippines. Are one of the worst example you could ever find of people talking past each other and and Pearl Harbor come up that. Then maybe you'd come up where. That's an area and attacks scenario. Exactly matched what finally happened at Pearl Harbor they had done exercises. Against that attacks scenario. That their defense plan was on final in Washington. The problem is during the final year. Most of the assets that we're supposed to be used send it to fans. Or stripped to transcend either. For further west into the Pacific. Or they award allocated because they were going to Europe are going to be Atlantic for the European war support the British and and so basically. The people in Hawaii. Prepared a great plan they put it on file with the Pentagon. The Pentagon thought that they wish to Wear what that the Pentagon and it was toward apartment thought they were doing it. And the people wonder why it never went back and said oh by the way we can't do what we should be doing because we don't have the assets or. They did it was they didn't yell loud enough until after the fact. The war department was astonished. That the defense did not ban in place they just assume that had banned because nobody was beating a lot and to a large extent. It's even worse for the Philippines. Yeah Larry get a could she offer it there is we have to go to break we'll pick that up when we come back I serenity a quick break more to come you listen to Jason indeed via the on. Good talking to Mary Hancock author of many books including unidentified. The national intelligence problem of UFOs. And now a surprise attack from Pearl Harbor to 9/11 to being Ghazi in the whole question of what. The US government and military knew and how they are prepared for when it came to pro government Larry you're saying. That town that got the Philippines is actually a bigger disaster and it and something that could have been probably dealt with much differently. And you know what was happening. The United States had decided that station has been made that we pitted him today the Japanese. By placing their strategic air force at least seventeen. In the Philippines. All the all the planes that should've been doing naval patrol for a why he had been routed to the Philippines. So I'm getting along with a golf stop. Are you with what you yesterday morning and command a macro control is. Always not good how could. Well with what you were saying they're talking about Hawaii and stuff isn't there also evidence now has been out for many years that. The government really didn't wanna do any sang with the list Hawaii because the fact of the matter is the Japanese would have known. That we knew that we were able to listen online on their transmissions. There was this there was a big. Then cover up on that because they wanted to still be able to listen learn Japanese transmissions. So they sort of like Hawaii happen. Well. I would have to say yes and no one man in terms of in terms. Raising the alert level among the population in terms of doing things the civilians might say. And disclosing that to the Japanese. That's true absolutely and and orders were issued that. They had to move to the defense conditions. Heighten the sense condition but not to educate the public. Okay fine. But there were numbers they're they're plans called for. Long range. Air. Surveys it cut it. And all sorts of things and that that could have been done that the public would have seen and will be back off that the one point and I think it gets lost. If the United States and executed its defense plan. That they at practice only a year before. They would have intercepted. The Japanese fleet moving him to Pearl Harbor actually well they before they can launch planes. And they would have attacked. And and at that point time you don't worry about disclosing any time they that would have been a normal state patrol we also forget that they actually. Attacked a whole series of submarines. Before the attack on pearl started and the navy is authorized. Speaking terms and did so before the air attacks began. Interesting Erica. So look Larry I am a couple things you you mentioned the Japanese fleet approaching Pearl Harbor that was a big fleet there's a lot of ships there that is not something that moves very easily if there's an intention to find them they would have been found it sounds like there was. Not a very serious intention to to to watch for that fleet and part of my other question here is that there have been reports that at the highest levels of the US government including president not Roosevelt. They turn to points I did this because they felt it there was are all rallying cry component if we're attacked. By the Japanese it would allow us to get into the war and in both the Pacific and the European theaters and that's. What the federal government was trying to do is there any truth to that based based on what you found. I know not what I think I'll have to say I'm on bird for me aware that because that's. But for everybody starts you know when you look at these subjects that's kind of the starting point and and you look for that evidence. I'm certainly not saying Roosevelt. Didn't deal with the fact that it made it easier to go to war but. Ignoring Roosevelt that I look at the actual orders that are in place that you eat just brought it up. That Japanese fleet. Should that man. Identified. Intercepted an engaged by sea patrols of aircraft. The orders war and nobody rescinded those orders. They were in place the the reasons. The commanders were disciplined and relieved in Hawaii is that they have ceased doing those patrol. And that the war department that. They were not doing what they were supposed to be doing so it's hard to say that anybody in order to stand there on the if if that if it war. Based at themselves then I guess he's COM. You know nobody had orders stand down the people on a lie. Stopped doing what they were supposed to be doing. Primarily speak. They re designated all their assets and then they sent the planes out. They sent the planes on the Philippines. They didn't request and force the issue about. Getting new planes they didn't force the issue assigned. We can't do is receive patrol that we've been ordered to do. Even for the the interior sea patrols okay what those would get what you can do you can't. If you're expecting an attack obviously one of the things that you do is. You randomized. You're surveillance you're not looking in the same places at the same time on the same schedule. They can't find these same retain offshore patrol. That they had for twelve years. And the Japanese agents kept reporting that they were flying the same patrol that they had there had been no change that. I guess on China's. To me what I see when I look at the details. Is they do literally see a lack of command control and communication I don't see anything. Anybody turning anything off it's like turned off internally. You know fascinating stuff it's Larry Hancock when this on beyond reality radio Jason GC you gonna go to break when we come back we'll change topic a little bit something more contemporary. We're talking Berry Hancock. Great now about his book surprise attack from Pearl Harbor to nine elevenths Ben Ghazi and let's talk about 9/11 because it's another topic that we've discussed. On this program a lot of times there are a lot of conspiracy theories there are a lot of my tin foil hat can spend a series as well cult. On Larry what do we know. And how far in advance did we know it and was it enough to have prevented it. The answer is yes. 9/11. Is terrible compared to Pearl Harbor in the Philippines. You know I'm just giving you us this statement that. Pearl Harbor was sit fail a local failure essentially the Philippines was even worse because they had they had twelve hours of warning that. There are plans call for them to Baum. The Japanese air bases that later successfully. Struck famine wiped out the Philippines air force. It they claim the plan was for them to bomb those air field. At the first sign of action. MacArthur waited twelve hours with his air commanders. It'd door begging him to launch their strikes and he didn't know that's that's pretty bad OK but that's after the fact in regard to 9/11. Yes we absolutely can't warning and I think the book details of that and pretty revolting. These fail. We use that there were when you that there were going to be terror attacks we have we've even had detailed warnings I don't know if you've ever. Discuss the ball he's got plopped on your show or not the plot that occurred in the Philippines where the. Commercial airliner. Ears of at the end of the Clinton administration. The al-Qaeda terrorist cells in the Philippines. Put together a massive plot that would've exploded bombs on something on the order but doesn't commercial airliners. As they were flying to the United States. They would have been almost all of US passengers. They actually tested it brought down one airline's. One airliner. Power managed to land it. This is help plot was. Was broken by the Philippines Philippine security people. And the interesting thing is it was communicated back to the white after the national security advisor through. Clark who is the terrorism coordinator. And it at the presidential level the order was given to ground all those aircraft. Which they managed to do they did successfully. And some 3000 Americans didn't die in that attack. That was already filed we knew al-Qaeda was targeting aircraft in that case it was to put bombs on them. But there was associated intelligence from some of the people or captured and quite frankly tortured that they had the intent. To the use aircraft as weapons directly against US targets. There are just a number of reports say this gets back to something nice talking about earlier. Within the FBI field offices. You'd seen the FBI field offices. Telling. Headquarters FBI headquarters. That they are monitoring. Terrorist who are learning to fly aircraft. Who are. I mean it's it's not yet. And the White House pushes back not White House but they FBI. Headquarters keeps pushing back to them that. No warnings were there they were all over the place we now even now and I'm I'm sure you discussed that President Bush. Was advised by CI a brief first at his ranch in Texas. Only weeks before hand that a threat was imminent. And the fans saying about this war that. Yeah. What you would call that defense conditions. More elevated. Nobody walked over to FBI headquarters and says okay go every lead you've got jump on it. Go out harass these people. Enter addicted abortive we don't know exactly what's going on. We see. That it may involve New York City may involve abortion turned. And that wasn't done that the worst thing about it is exactly that it and happened. And at the end of 1999. Was what was called the millennium plot. At that point in time. Clinton's FBI director Dick jump on it and they they aborted a series of attacks. A very large scale that we're supposed to happen at the turn of the century. Now do you think that there was deliberate. Reason to not. Really pay attention to two what was possibly going and I know that opens a can of worms because. Yet at weird things right or there's a lot of conspiracy. Saw itself there there's a lot of lot of different thought in it's strange how certain certain parts of buildings were destroyed there were investigating certain certain subjects of missing money in and all these these facts. So DP you'd be really got to sit back and you wonder do you believe that there might have been deliberate plot. Though it's no matter how sick it sounds to allow that to happen for. To hide things or are also open up the ability to attack certain areas for whatever reason. Eyes on us all I can tell you is there and I think tank that can be documented that. Nine elevenths commission documented this. The decisions that were may eat you have to say either the decisions. That were made at the level at the president and his national security advisor. And the secretary of defense or either. Woefully. Inept. Or intentional. I can't. Called no line anyway and I don't you understand this. An alternative that actually were saying to some extent right now. It's pretty clear that wins the Bush Administration came into place he wanted nothing to do with the preceding administration. We have record showing that President Clinton tried to warn bush about bin Laden and and al-Qaeda he didn't want to hear it. It was just kind of like eight apolitical the change a total rejection of the Clinton administration. When and the the Clark the terrorists. Advice or try to get median. With rice to advise bush and the national security advisor about al-Qaeda he would totally blocked they didn't want to hear it. So I'm torn between I mean it's like we see right now where we don't wanna see directions. All right we don't we don't like anything the previous administration did. And we don't want to see the Russians with a bullish it's almost like we don't like anything in the Clinton administration. Did it and everything they all worried about where we're going to count myself. So in other words you use saying that all arms and nine I agree with you if there are political parties actually worked together and not consciously trying to demeanor each side. Com. There were there would have been a lot of these these things actually handled before and they would never actually happened. I'd I'd I'd do agree with and I think. That gets into the command command and control became so politicized. Point where they're national security advisor with. They start they start to assume their own agendas you know. And they reject everything that has been in play is if you look at all the warnings about I'll let it go back earlier. As early as the Olympics. An Atlanta. Clark and it's security national security team had been counterterrorism team had been put together to evaluate the threat to the Olympics. Okay one of the things that emerged out of those comedians. Wish just what I talked about before. They they had high level people from Washington minutes from. The SS FAA. From the FBI. And Clark ask them some very simple questions about what we do it somebody's. Steal a plane and tried to pressure them to Olympic Stadium. And everybody. It led to this huge discussion of we don't have an answer for that and Clark turns around and goes. Well whose responsibility is that to get an answer for that and everybody just shakes their head. It's an amazing and it's amazing. Lady and the same thing kept happening is it was not that it was a known problem it was very well known. That we had. No. Air defense. Of any fashion anymore I mean when your when your first responding aircraft. Taken an hour to get to New York City you know how how can this happen how can you say that you got an air defense when your capital in your major city. I have no local air defense. But that requires more money. So it all gets wrapped up in two political agendas and somewhat the same thing. Four BI policy the Clinton administration's stance a lot of money. Closing down embassies and fortifying their their embassies. And all that funding went away with a change in administration. I'm not saying that that's. That's reality. Every administration has its own priorities. And if they ignore what the previous administration. If they blurt. It appalled me that nobody seems to want to learn from history. Our and it keeps on repeating itself does yeah. We're talking with Larry handgun Larry were who were pretty close to being at a time here I was hoping we have some time to talk about your book shatter warfare and somewhat on someone would have talked of about the JFK assassination Heatley and have like a week with Larry PM. We put Larry you'll call at that include the Larry we get we're gonna have to have you back for that but before we before we let you go couple things one is any projects in the works right now. I am working mine because I'm now working on it as a sequel to our book on these Martin Luther King assassination. So that some progress at the moment it's scheduled via an expiring and but it's really fascinating because began at it goes where the FBI could have gone but just not through this and I love those. So that's still in progress and I'm I'm thinking about. Follow up book on the UFO's it just depends on honest. Now the world lets me live after the first one. And that we're gonna have we obviously have a link on our website to be on reality radio website that takes folks to you into a place they can buy the books now specifically Amazon but. A you'll civil website right. I guess www. Larry station Hancock dot com. And also they applaud the award press where I argued Anderson good dialogue about all of these subjects such a very very blockage economic agents. Terrific so good what we're really appreciate you joining us and sharing knowledge and information when this. Again lot of books a lot of topics it's all can be found on the beyond reality radio website or. Larry Dennis Hancock dot com and Larry we're going to be on again soon because there's so much talk about thanks so much among analysts. Brady enjoyed do. And that's can do is force tonight I'll hope you enjoyed it was a great show will be back to don't give Bruce Bruce tomorrow night it's beyond reality radio and Jason and GT. It's to discuss its includes music Alexandria Johnson and. Current time. Don't forget to stop by our FaceBook page give us a line and say hello it's beyond reality radio all one hour. If you've got information you want us to follow what font or you like to be Gaston beyond reality radio emails to sleep getting. That's slick Eddie ED DY and beyond reality radio dot com thanks for listening.